5 ms·

I believe the real distinction is susceptibility to different types of persuasion. It’s easily observable that the vast majority of people don’t have their own

by User23 8y ago

I believe the real distinction is susceptibility to different types of persuasion. It’s easily observable that the vast majority of people don’t have their own opinion on any subject that receives significant media attention, because their opinion is exactly that espoused by said media (this includes entertainment as well as news). Since the remain faction had almost complete media support, we must conclude that brexit voters were persuaded by other factors. I believe this approach of looking at biddability rather than whatever the arbitry set of opinions being pushed at present will lead to better models.

pjc50 8y ago
> susceptibility to different types of persuasion It's interesting to read Dominic Cummings on this. He talks about how Leave thoroughly tested all their slogans, and came up with "£350m for the NHS" as the most effective. The fact that, after you net out all the downsides of Brexit, that's an entirely fictional number that could never be delivered, never entered into it. This immunity to caring about deliverability is ultimately why the cabinet Brexiteers achieved nothing and eventually have had to resign.
- yayana 8y ago
  > is ultimately why the cabinet Brexiteers achieved nothing and eventually have had to resign. Are you sure? I thought their original plan was to lose the vote and run on "I told you so" for the rest of their careers. Having won, they had to accept positions offered to them out of spite, but they want to be as far away from the result as possible to say the fallout of renegotiating everything as a country with an unknown relationship to every other country is not "their" Brexit. I for one look forward to seeing what the EU thinks of Britain's difficult to reach internal agreement to steal everything that isn't tied down.. But whether the EU goes hard or soft on them, it leaves a lot of incentives for either a land or individual politicians to try an exit campaign for selfish reasons.
pjc50 8y ago
> Since the remain faction had almost complete media support Leave was (still is!) supported by the Sun, Mail, Express, Telegraph, some of the Times columnists, and arguably whoever in the BBC was responsible for UKIP being on BBCQT far beyond their electoral success would merit.
- sveme 8y ago
  Murdoch was in favour of brexit, that‘s a huge resource in the UK.
- guelo 8y ago
  No, that doesn't count. That's why we need a separate term for evil lying propaganda media: MSM. The "conservative" media is just a small light of sanity in a sea of MSM darkness.
  - colanderman 8y ago
    Unsupported hyperbolic opinions add nothing to rational discourse. Please dispense with them here.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- mike-cardwell 8y ago
  At the last general election before the EU referendum took place, UKIP received 12% of the vote. That put them in third place, and for a single issue party, that's very high. For the BBC to have decided that they weren't allowed a voice, would have been a dereliction of duty.
Analemma_ 8y ago
> Since the remain faction had almost complete media support, we must conclude that brexit voters were persuaded by other factors. You must be joking. Every tabloid was for Leave.
- olavk 8y ago
  You are downvoted, but as somebody outside of the UK I have no idea if you are correct or not.
  - oligopoly 8y ago
    Not factual hence the downvotes.
  - pjc50 8y ago
    He's correct, see my list upthread.
    - gadders 8y ago
      He's incorrect. The Daily Mirror was pro-remain and is a tabloid. And to add to your list above, the Economist (not strictly a newspaper but influential) and the FT were pro-remain, as was the BBC.
      - GW150914 8y ago
        Surely you’re seriously claiming that the FT or BBC are tabloids? Every tabloid was for Leave. That’s the gp comment after all.
  - MagnumOpus 8y ago
    https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/evening-standard-backs-remain-all-the-national-newspaper-brexit-vote-endorsements-at-a-glance/ https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/evening-standard-backs-remain... By circulation, 50% of papers backed leave, 33% backed remain. In terms of tabloids it was and is even more skewed.
AnimalMuppet 8y ago
No, I think you need to broaden your definition of "media". Do you count Facebook as media? I think you need to. Now, it's different, because it's not a broadcast medium. But people are getting their political opinions from others via Facebook rather than via the BBC or the papers, and so Facebook is now playing the role of media.
- pas 8y ago
  Twitter too. And there's an editor (the platform itself, even if it's very lazy), and most people just read it (even if that ratio is higher than for the classic printed news). So it's very much like a medium, but lacking a clear institutional bias. (Since it has many different groups of authors on it.)
johnchristopher 8y ago
> It’s easily observable that the vast majority of people don’t have their own opinion on any subject that receives significant media attention, because their opinion is exactly that espoused by said media (this includes entertainment as well as news). > Since the remain faction had almost complete media support, we must conclude that brexit voters were persuaded by other factors. Only if your belief/premise is right.

by User23 8y ago

pjc50 8y ago

> susceptibility to different types of persuasion It's interesting to read Dominic Cummings on this. He talks about how Leave thoroughly tested all their slogans, and came up with "£350m for the NHS" as the most effective. The fact that, after you net out all the downsides of Brexit, that's an entirely fictional number that could never be delivered, never entered into it. This immunity to caring about deliverability is ultimately why the cabinet Brexiteers achieved nothing and eventually have had to resign.

yayana 8y ago
> is ultimately why the cabinet Brexiteers achieved nothing and eventually have had to resign. Are you sure? I thought their original plan was to lose the vote and run on "I told you so" for the rest of their careers. Having won, they had to accept positions offered to them out of spite, but they want to be as far away from the result as possible to say the fallout of renegotiating everything as a country with an unknown relationship to every other country is not "their" Brexit. I for one look forward to seeing what the EU thinks of Britain's difficult to reach internal agreement to steal everything that isn't tied down.. But whether the EU goes hard or soft on them, it leaves a lot of incentives for either a land or individual politicians to try an exit campaign for selfish reasons.

pjc50 8y ago

> Since the remain faction had almost complete media support Leave was (still is!) supported by the Sun, Mail, Express, Telegraph, some of the Times columnists, and arguably whoever in the BBC was responsible for UKIP being on BBCQT far beyond their electoral success would merit.

sveme 8y ago
Murdoch was in favour of brexit, that‘s a huge resource in the UK.
guelo 8y ago
No, that doesn't count. That's why we need a separate term for evil lying propaganda media: MSM. The "conservative" media is just a small light of sanity in a sea of MSM darkness.
- colanderman 8y ago
  Unsupported hyperbolic opinions add nothing to rational discourse. Please dispense with them here.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
mike-cardwell 8y ago
At the last general election before the EU referendum took place, UKIP received 12% of the vote. That put them in third place, and for a single issue party, that's very high. For the BBC to have decided that they weren't allowed a voice, would have been a dereliction of duty.

Analemma_ 8y ago

> Since the remain faction had almost complete media support, we must conclude that brexit voters were persuaded by other factors. You must be joking. Every tabloid was for Leave.

olavk 8y ago
You are downvoted, but as somebody outside of the UK I have no idea if you are correct or not.
- oligopoly 8y ago
  Not factual hence the downvotes.
- pjc50 8y ago
  He's correct, see my list upthread.
  - gadders 8y ago
    He's incorrect. The Daily Mirror was pro-remain and is a tabloid. And to add to your list above, the Economist (not strictly a newspaper but influential) and the FT were pro-remain, as was the BBC.
    - GW150914 8y ago
      Surely you’re seriously claiming that the FT or BBC are tabloids? Every tabloid was for Leave. That’s the gp comment after all.
- MagnumOpus 8y ago
  https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/evening-standard-backs-remain-all-the-national-newspaper-brexit-vote-endorsements-at-a-glance/ https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/evening-standard-backs-remain... By circulation, 50% of papers backed leave, 33% backed remain. In terms of tabloids it was and is even more skewed.

AnimalMuppet 8y ago

No, I think you need to broaden your definition of "media". Do you count Facebook as media? I think you need to. Now, it's different, because it's not a broadcast medium. But people are getting their political opinions from others via Facebook rather than via the BBC or the papers, and so Facebook is now playing the role of media.

pas 8y ago
Twitter too. And there's an editor (the platform itself, even if it's very lazy), and most people just read it (even if that ratio is higher than for the classic printed news). So it's very much like a medium, but lacking a clear institutional bias. (Since it has many different groups of authors on it.)

johnchristopher 8y ago

> It’s easily observable that the vast majority of people don’t have their own opinion on any subject that receives significant media attention, because their opinion is exactly that espoused by said media (this includes entertainment as well as news). > Since the remain faction had almost complete media support, we must conclude that brexit voters were persuaded by other factors. Only if your belief/premise is right.