5 ms·

Keyboard sold separately. I wish they'd been more clear about that, almost all the promotional materials show the new Surface with the Type Cover (keyboard) an

Keyboard sold separately. I wish they'd been more clear about that, almost all the promotional materials show the new Surface with the Type Cover (keyboard) and pen. It feels deceptive. I was more interested when I thought $400 would get me a complete Windows tablet/ultrabook. At $650-700, it's nice but not nearly as compelling.

Maven911 8y ago
Aren't surface covers $100 though ? So that would be a $500 (400+100) in total. And some pens are $40 though not everyone needs the pen.
- beamatronic 8y ago
  Having to research/shop for the additional necessary accessories is transactional friction - if you want mass adoption of something, reduce or eliminate the friction.
  - sgift 8y ago
    I don't see the keyboard as necessary. Just the tablet with the pen looks like a good deal at that size for me.* Others only want the keyboard, not the pen. Having only one variant and "take it or leave it, we know what's good for you" is a strategy. Allowing customizing is too. *If I want a keyboard I have desktop PC with a full-sized keyboard, a big monitor and everything else I need
  - jfim 8y ago
    On the other hand, Microsoft used to bundle the Kinect with Xboxes, which was a point criticized by reviews [0]: > On a more practical note, Kinect represents the $100 difference in price between Xbox One and PlayStation 4 this holiday. It's of course Microsoft's prerogative to go "all-in" on Kinect, but we'd sure prefer to choose at retail. [0] https://www.engadget.com/2013/11/20/microsoft-xbox-one-review/ https://www.engadget.com/2013/11/20/microsoft-xbox-one-revie...
    - bnolsen 8y ago
      considering kinect had the added bonus of snooping on you people didn't take kindly to paying for that feature.
    - mike10010100 8y ago
      That's because the early version of the Kinect was a gimmick at best. A keyboard/trackpad is not.
thinkythought 8y ago
This, in my opinion, has ruined the value equation of these machines from the beginning. Essentially no one wants or needs one without the keyboard. Just charge an honest price and sell a full set. This isn't an iPad, and there wont be a lot of people who want to use windows without a real keyboard. It feels like airline convenience fees jacking up your ticket $100
- hart_russell 8y ago
  Except if you've owned a previous generation and want to upgrade without the added cost of a keyboard.
  - coryfklein 8y ago
    Can you use a previous gen keyboard with the Surface Go? Besides, when upgrading most people sell their old device so it just shifts the problem one step back to the person buying your old Surface.
    - AdmiralAsshat 8y ago
      Pretty sure not, the Surface Go is an inch or two smaller than the regular Surface.
  - thinkythought 8y ago
    This has only worked surface pro 1-2, and surface pro 3-4. It also seems the original "surface"(atom) non-pro keyboard would not fit this new "go" And regardless, if you upgrade a normal amount of time for a laptop/tablet, even in a corporate environment, you will need a new keyboard every time.
  - TheRealWatson 8y ago
    Why would they primarily target upgrades? Assuming the upgrade was possible (it may not be,) they should still be mainly after new customers. Make the keyboard an opt-out instead.
  - Chronos309 8y ago
michaelmior 8y ago
Ugh. I didn't see that myself either. This definitely makes a big difference in terms of my willingness to acquire one.
ChuckMcM 8y ago
Is this much different than the iPad pro which sells the pen separately ? (it is included with the Surface). I'm not disagreeing with your comment, I agree that if they advertised the bundled price and then calling out the opportunity to buy it without a keyboard as a lower price option would be a better way to market it, but is the unit 3 pieces? (pen/keyboard/display) 2 pieces (display/pen)? or one piece? (display). I have both the Surface Pro and the iPad pro and find that both can be operated without the keyboard although windows applications often assume the keyboard is there. And while you can use your finger on the Surface display the stylus is much more accurate. Bottom line seems to be that Microsoft and Apple are going head to head with these things and Microsoft didn't have a 10" version. I was disappointed in the lack of LTE availability at release.
- fwn 8y ago
  > Is this much different than the iPad pro which sells the pen separately No, they are both deceptive. Apart from that: For my very own usage patterns, no Windows machine is in the same market as an iPad. I see that they pitch it this way, but I don't know anyone who perceives those two products as comparable for daily usage.
  - ChuckMcM 8y ago
    > I don't know anyone who perceives those two products as comparable for daily usage. Allow me to introduce you to me :-) I presumably have different usage patterns that you do. I've got both an iPad Pro 10.5 and a Surface Pro and keyboards and styli for both of them. With the exception of software that is available for one and not the other, they are pretty much interchangeable as a daily driver with two caveats. 1) If I am using my Surface on the road I have to tether it through my phone for internet connectivity. 2) If I am using the iPad have to SSH into a Linux machine to get a Linux userland prompt. I use Dropbox on both of them to access shared files. The big differentiator for me, is that on Surface when I plug in the dock connector it lights up my dual 2K monitor/keyboard/mouse setup and it is just like being on a desktop machine. Not something I can do with the iPad. The other aspect that probably makes my setup unique is that I'm not developing code for either the iPad or the Surface, just using them as essentially terminals to get to the systems where I am writing the code.
jrs95 8y ago
The keyboard aspect isn’t as bad the as storage and RAM limitations imo. Very few people are actually going to be able to do anything with the base 64GB/4GB configuration, even people that don’t know anything about specs. A lot of people that buy this base model are going to be unhappy with it. You’d think Microsoft would prefer to sacrifice some profit or even lose money on this device rather than undermine their brand in this way.
LyndsySimon 8y ago
A complete Windows tablet/ultrabook does exist around that price point - I got a refurbished Samsung Galaxy TabPro S Gold for $525 shipped last August. It's got 8GB of RAM and a 256GB SSD, the only real thing that differentiated it from the more expensive devices out there is the 0.9Ghz m3 CPU. It included the keyboard cover. FWIW, I haven't used it since I bought a 6th-gen iPad with LTE. It suits that role better for me.

Maven911 8y ago

Aren't surface covers $100 though ? So that would be a $500 (400+100) in total. And some pens are $40 though not everyone needs the pen.

beamatronic 8y ago
Having to research/shop for the additional necessary accessories is transactional friction - if you want mass adoption of something, reduce or eliminate the friction.
- sgift 8y ago
  I don't see the keyboard as necessary. Just the tablet with the pen looks like a good deal at that size for me.* Others only want the keyboard, not the pen. Having only one variant and "take it or leave it, we know what's good for you" is a strategy. Allowing customizing is too. *If I want a keyboard I have desktop PC with a full-sized keyboard, a big monitor and everything else I need
- jfim 8y ago
  On the other hand, Microsoft used to bundle the Kinect with Xboxes, which was a point criticized by reviews [0]: > On a more practical note, Kinect represents the $100 difference in price between Xbox One and PlayStation 4 this holiday. It's of course Microsoft's prerogative to go "all-in" on Kinect, but we'd sure prefer to choose at retail. [0] https://www.engadget.com/2013/11/20/microsoft-xbox-one-review/ https://www.engadget.com/2013/11/20/microsoft-xbox-one-revie...
  - bnolsen 8y ago
    considering kinect had the added bonus of snooping on you people didn't take kindly to paying for that feature.
  - mike10010100 8y ago
    That's because the early version of the Kinect was a gimmick at best. A keyboard/trackpad is not.

thinkythought 8y ago

This, in my opinion, has ruined the value equation of these machines from the beginning. Essentially no one wants or needs one without the keyboard. Just charge an honest price and sell a full set. This isn't an iPad, and there wont be a lot of people who want to use windows without a real keyboard. It feels like airline convenience fees jacking up your ticket $100

hart_russell 8y ago
Except if you've owned a previous generation and want to upgrade without the added cost of a keyboard.
- coryfklein 8y ago
  Can you use a previous gen keyboard with the Surface Go? Besides, when upgrading most people sell their old device so it just shifts the problem one step back to the person buying your old Surface.
  - AdmiralAsshat 8y ago
    Pretty sure not, the Surface Go is an inch or two smaller than the regular Surface.
- thinkythought 8y ago
  This has only worked surface pro 1-2, and surface pro 3-4. It also seems the original "surface"(atom) non-pro keyboard would not fit this new "go" And regardless, if you upgrade a normal amount of time for a laptop/tablet, even in a corporate environment, you will need a new keyboard every time.
- TheRealWatson 8y ago
  Why would they primarily target upgrades? Assuming the upgrade was possible (it may not be,) they should still be mainly after new customers. Make the keyboard an opt-out instead.
- Chronos309 8y ago

michaelmior 8y ago

Ugh. I didn't see that myself either. This definitely makes a big difference in terms of my willingness to acquire one.

ChuckMcM 8y ago

Is this much different than the iPad pro which sells the pen separately ? (it is included with the Surface). I'm not disagreeing with your comment, I agree that if they advertised the bundled price and then calling out the opportunity to buy it without a keyboard as a lower price option would be a better way to market it, but is the unit 3 pieces? (pen/keyboard/display) 2 pieces (display/pen)? or one piece? (display). I have both the Surface Pro and the iPad pro and find that both can be operated without the keyboard although windows applications often assume the keyboard is there. And while you can use your finger on the Surface display the stylus is much more accurate. Bottom line seems to be that Microsoft and Apple are going head to head with these things and Microsoft didn't have a 10" version. I was disappointed in the lack of LTE availability at release.

fwn 8y ago
> Is this much different than the iPad pro which sells the pen separately No, they are both deceptive. Apart from that: For my very own usage patterns, no Windows machine is in the same market as an iPad. I see that they pitch it this way, but I don't know anyone who perceives those two products as comparable for daily usage.
- ChuckMcM 8y ago
  > I don't know anyone who perceives those two products as comparable for daily usage. Allow me to introduce you to me :-) I presumably have different usage patterns that you do. I've got both an iPad Pro 10.5 and a Surface Pro and keyboards and styli for both of them. With the exception of software that is available for one and not the other, they are pretty much interchangeable as a daily driver with two caveats. 1) If I am using my Surface on the road I have to tether it through my phone for internet connectivity. 2) If I am using the iPad have to SSH into a Linux machine to get a Linux userland prompt. I use Dropbox on both of them to access shared files. The big differentiator for me, is that on Surface when I plug in the dock connector it lights up my dual 2K monitor/keyboard/mouse setup and it is just like being on a desktop machine. Not something I can do with the iPad. The other aspect that probably makes my setup unique is that I'm not developing code for either the iPad or the Surface, just using them as essentially terminals to get to the systems where I am writing the code.

jrs95 8y ago

The keyboard aspect isn’t as bad the as storage and RAM limitations imo. Very few people are actually going to be able to do anything with the base 64GB/4GB configuration, even people that don’t know anything about specs. A lot of people that buy this base model are going to be unhappy with it. You’d think Microsoft would prefer to sacrifice some profit or even lose money on this device rather than undermine their brand in this way.

LyndsySimon 8y ago

A complete Windows tablet/ultrabook does exist around that price point - I got a refurbished Samsung Galaxy TabPro S Gold for $525 shipped last August. It's got 8GB of RAM and a 256GB SSD, the only real thing that differentiated it from the more expensive devices out there is the 0.9Ghz m3 CPU. It included the keyboard cover. FWIW, I haven't used it since I bought a 6th-gen iPad with LTE. It suits that role better for me.