7 ms·

Call me cynical, but I couldn't help but notice Musk seemed to be going about his effort with the maximum amount of tweeting and publicity possible.

rusk 8y ago
> Call me cynical Okay, you are cynical. But in all seriousness given the domain knowledge that Musk has at his disposal he was perfectly entitled to get involved. Tweeting his thoughts is pretty much how he rolls ...
- emodendroket 8y ago
  In the end he made a lot of noise and then did not actually contribute anything to the effort.
  - rusk 8y ago
    You're arguing the point that because his help wasn't needed in the end that he shouldn't have offered to help. But it's conceivable that his expertise could have been useful. Did any other organisations offer subterranean expertise? Genuine question, e.g. mining companies, drilling, or was it just that Musk made the most noise about it?
    - emodendroket 8y ago
      My impression was that this was not a good-faith effort to help but rather to be seen to be helping, without any concern for whether his efforts were useful.
      - rusk 8y ago
        Which is itself a bad faith evaluation. I'd prefer to be kinder and thus keep the door open for other such "help" in the future. Fundamentally, he didn't do any harm.
    - jcranmer 8y ago
      Actually, I believe that other people were exploring the options of drilling a rescue tunnel from the surface. IIRC, there was even the beginning of projects to make a usable tunnel launch site for such a rescue tunnel.
      - rusk 8y ago
        Right, and so you don't think the expertise he was providing could have been valuable there?
        jcranmer 8y ago
        Honestly, no.
        rusk 8y ago
        Based on what.
        jcranmer 8y ago
        The expertise you'd want for drilling an emergency rescue tunnel would be a combination of skills related to drilling roughly pipe-sized vertical shafts [1] (mining/oil services, or maybe the companies themselves; I don't know what the exact breakdown of work packages end up being) and remote (specifically mountainous and jungle, in this case) infrastructure and logistics, which is military or again mining/oil services. Possibly a geologist or two on hand to assess the rock layers and identify hydrographic hazards as well as risks such as accidentally causing cave-ins. For the cave diving extraction, you'd want experienced cave divers, ideally ones with good first aid knowledge and cave rescue experience. For any further expertise, I wouldn't suggest anything without hearing the observations from the cave divers who have just explored the cave themselves. There is no evidence presented that Musk, nor any of his companies, has any of this kind of useful expertise. [1] Emphasis here on vertical shafts. There is a world of difference between a tunnel-boring machine that tends to remain within a single geological stratum and a vertical shaft that is constantly cutting through several strata of different kinds of rock (that require different cutting techniques).
IpV8 8y ago
Agreed. The man is a master of public relations.
- freyir 8y ago
  In my discussions with people, it seems like he’s becoming increasingly polarizing. His fans are idolizing him, but others see his behavior as attention-seeking theatrics. Interesting to see how it plays out in the long run, in terms of company PR.
  - JBReefer 8y ago
    I like the guy, I'm pretty sick of his fans
Theodores 8y ago
I wonder how many on HN are thinking more about Elon Musk's now-not-needed rescue plan than the delight those mothers of those boys must be feeling! There is also a tragedy going on in Japan right now with a lot of people actually with us no more. But a few million people with flooded homes is a 'statistic' whereas a few boys in a cave is a 'tragedy' to paraphrase Stalin. I think that there is a time for offering assistance in a big public way, there is also the 'George Michael' approach. He was willing to help many desperate people that happened to get into the news, however he helped out anonymously or in a way where it was clear that publicity was not sought. When he passed away a lot of people then learned how many people he had extended his hand of friendship to.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- jonhendry18 8y ago
  "There is also a tragedy going on in Japan right now with a lot of people actually with us no more." This is true, and a tragedy, but I think it's natural for "12 kids in great jeopardy" to draw more interest than 100+ people who are already gone due to a flood and perhaps couldn't have been saved. To be honest had the kids been found dead in the cave, it would have been a relative blip on Western media like the flood deaths in Japan or the 41 dead in the sinking of the Phuket tourist boat. "He was willing to help many desperate people that happened to get into the news, however he helped out anonymously or in a way where it was clear that publicity was not sought" In this case, talking about it on Twitter was probably an easy way to get in touch with the relevant authorities at the rescue site. Similarly, when he offered PowerWall batteries to help Puerto Rico, perhaps that made it easy for people who knew where they were needed to get in touch with him.
jonhendry18 8y ago
His efforts turned out to be a bit of a damp squib but that's because the rescue effort was launched earlier than expected due to coming heavy rains. There was talk about having the kids wait in there until as late as November, or maybe a long process of drilling an escape hole. If the rescue had begun a week or two later, perhaps Musk's gadget would have been used. As it is, the divers already had a plan that, by the time Musk arrived, appeared to be working well. But yeah, he tweets a lot about his projects, and no doubt has some thought toward self-promotion. He appears to follow through, so I can't be too cynical about his apparent opportunism.
- jacobush 8y ago
  He himself said something akin to "I may be a narcissist, but at least a useful one".
  - JustSomeNobody 8y ago
    Is the second half of this even true? If you create something that is impractical for the mission and won't be used have you been useful at all? I think not.
    - jonhendry18 8y ago
      With a little more time before the rescue and consultation with divers familiar with the caves, they might have come up with something more effective. But he did also send 700 or so PowerWall batteries to Puerto Rico for hospitals and whatnot.
    - jacobush 8y ago
      If he is, I am sure he thinks in larger terms - helping humanity out more than dragging it down.
  - 67_45 8y ago
    I would need a spource. What's next dude? The Gates foundation is all a PR stunt?
- 8y ago
DanielleMolloy 8y ago
Actually this started when a random guy on Twitter asked him whether he could help: https://twitter.com/MabzMagz/status/1014251869760249856 https://twitter.com/MabzMagz/status/1014251869760249856 I got the feeling that he just jumped in on that, without further thinking (which at least to me seems sympathetic). Got the feeling that it rather hurt their PR as people were quick to call it a PR stunt, which is foreseeable if you mainly think about PR.
corobo 8y ago
I'd rather people do good things for selfish reasons than not do good things at all
davidcbc 8y ago
Why is this comment flagged? I thought the exact same thing, it was all a publicity stunt rather than a legitimate humanitarian effort.
- TAForObvReasons 8y ago
  How dare you slander our lord and savior Elon Musk! /s Seriously though, there's a strong cult of personality at play and HN readers frequently downvote any comment that is even slightly negative about Musk or Tesla or SpaceX.

rusk 8y ago

> Call me cynical Okay, you are cynical. But in all seriousness given the domain knowledge that Musk has at his disposal he was perfectly entitled to get involved. Tweeting his thoughts is pretty much how he rolls ...

emodendroket 8y ago
In the end he made a lot of noise and then did not actually contribute anything to the effort.
- rusk 8y ago
  You're arguing the point that because his help wasn't needed in the end that he shouldn't have offered to help. But it's conceivable that his expertise could have been useful. Did any other organisations offer subterranean expertise? Genuine question, e.g. mining companies, drilling, or was it just that Musk made the most noise about it?
  - emodendroket 8y ago
    My impression was that this was not a good-faith effort to help but rather to be seen to be helping, without any concern for whether his efforts were useful.
    - rusk 8y ago
      Which is itself a bad faith evaluation. I'd prefer to be kinder and thus keep the door open for other such "help" in the future. Fundamentally, he didn't do any harm.
  - jcranmer 8y ago
    Actually, I believe that other people were exploring the options of drilling a rescue tunnel from the surface. IIRC, there was even the beginning of projects to make a usable tunnel launch site for such a rescue tunnel.
    - rusk 8y ago
      Right, and so you don't think the expertise he was providing could have been valuable there?
      - jcranmer 8y ago
        Honestly, no.
        rusk 8y ago
        Based on what.
        jcranmer 8y ago
        The expertise you'd want for drilling an emergency rescue tunnel would be a combination of skills related to drilling roughly pipe-sized vertical shafts [1] (mining/oil services, or maybe the companies themselves; I don't know what the exact breakdown of work packages end up being) and remote (specifically mountainous and jungle, in this case) infrastructure and logistics, which is military or again mining/oil services. Possibly a geologist or two on hand to assess the rock layers and identify hydrographic hazards as well as risks such as accidentally causing cave-ins. For the cave diving extraction, you'd want experienced cave divers, ideally ones with good first aid knowledge and cave rescue experience. For any further expertise, I wouldn't suggest anything without hearing the observations from the cave divers who have just explored the cave themselves. There is no evidence presented that Musk, nor any of his companies, has any of this kind of useful expertise. [1] Emphasis here on vertical shafts. There is a world of difference between a tunnel-boring machine that tends to remain within a single geological stratum and a vertical shaft that is constantly cutting through several strata of different kinds of rock (that require different cutting techniques).

IpV8 8y ago

Agreed. The man is a master of public relations.

freyir 8y ago
In my discussions with people, it seems like he’s becoming increasingly polarizing. His fans are idolizing him, but others see his behavior as attention-seeking theatrics. Interesting to see how it plays out in the long run, in terms of company PR.
- JBReefer 8y ago
  I like the guy, I'm pretty sick of his fans

Theodores 8y ago

I wonder how many on HN are thinking more about Elon Musk's now-not-needed rescue plan than the delight those mothers of those boys must be feeling! There is also a tragedy going on in Japan right now with a lot of people actually with us no more. But a few million people with flooded homes is a 'statistic' whereas a few boys in a cave is a 'tragedy' to paraphrase Stalin. I think that there is a time for offering assistance in a big public way, there is also the 'George Michael' approach. He was willing to help many desperate people that happened to get into the news, however he helped out anonymously or in a way where it was clear that publicity was not sought. When he passed away a lot of people then learned how many people he had extended his hand of friendship to.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
jonhendry18 8y ago
"There is also a tragedy going on in Japan right now with a lot of people actually with us no more." This is true, and a tragedy, but I think it's natural for "12 kids in great jeopardy" to draw more interest than 100+ people who are already gone due to a flood and perhaps couldn't have been saved. To be honest had the kids been found dead in the cave, it would have been a relative blip on Western media like the flood deaths in Japan or the 41 dead in the sinking of the Phuket tourist boat. "He was willing to help many desperate people that happened to get into the news, however he helped out anonymously or in a way where it was clear that publicity was not sought" In this case, talking about it on Twitter was probably an easy way to get in touch with the relevant authorities at the rescue site. Similarly, when he offered PowerWall batteries to help Puerto Rico, perhaps that made it easy for people who knew where they were needed to get in touch with him.

jonhendry18 8y ago

His efforts turned out to be a bit of a damp squib but that's because the rescue effort was launched earlier than expected due to coming heavy rains. There was talk about having the kids wait in there until as late as November, or maybe a long process of drilling an escape hole. If the rescue had begun a week or two later, perhaps Musk's gadget would have been used. As it is, the divers already had a plan that, by the time Musk arrived, appeared to be working well. But yeah, he tweets a lot about his projects, and no doubt has some thought toward self-promotion. He appears to follow through, so I can't be too cynical about his apparent opportunism.

jacobush 8y ago
He himself said something akin to "I may be a narcissist, but at least a useful one".
- JustSomeNobody 8y ago
  Is the second half of this even true? If you create something that is impractical for the mission and won't be used have you been useful at all? I think not.
  - jonhendry18 8y ago
    With a little more time before the rescue and consultation with divers familiar with the caves, they might have come up with something more effective. But he did also send 700 or so PowerWall batteries to Puerto Rico for hospitals and whatnot.
  - jacobush 8y ago
    If he is, I am sure he thinks in larger terms - helping humanity out more than dragging it down.
- 67_45 8y ago
  I would need a spource. What's next dude? The Gates foundation is all a PR stunt?
8y ago

DanielleMolloy 8y ago

Actually this started when a random guy on Twitter asked him whether he could help: https://twitter.com/MabzMagz/status/1014251869760249856 https://twitter.com/MabzMagz/status/1014251869760249856 I got the feeling that he just jumped in on that, without further thinking (which at least to me seems sympathetic). Got the feeling that it rather hurt their PR as people were quick to call it a PR stunt, which is foreseeable if you mainly think about PR.

corobo 8y ago

I'd rather people do good things for selfish reasons than not do good things at all

davidcbc 8y ago

Why is this comment flagged? I thought the exact same thing, it was all a publicity stunt rather than a legitimate humanitarian effort.

TAForObvReasons 8y ago
How dare you slander our lord and savior Elon Musk! /s Seriously though, there's a strong cult of personality at play and HN readers frequently downvote any comment that is even slightly negative about Musk or Tesla or SpaceX.