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>Unless you're the sole earner for a big family with bad benefits, it is not hard at all to live anywhere in the Bay Area at $117K a year. It isn't hard per se

>Unless you're the sole earner for a big family with bad benefits, it is not hard at all to live anywhere in the Bay Area at $117K a year. It isn't hard per se, but it isn't good either, compared to what the same salary would buy in terms of quality of life nearly anywhere else in the country. And let's get real: "Bay Area" is overbroad. You can't compare life in SF proper to living somewhere like Redwood City or Milpitas. They are completely different experiences with shamefully small variations in cost.

JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> compared to what the same salary would buy in terms of quality of life nearly anywhere else in the country That same person probably wouldn't be worth $117k outside the Bay Area. Density, network and agglomeration effects are real.
- sithadmin 8y ago
  Yeah, but there's wiggle room there. $117k/yr in SF is equivalent to roughly $88k/yr in Houston, and it's arguable that $88k in Houston will buy you a far nicer quality of life than you could get for $117k in SF.
Zaheer 8y ago
For those outside the bay, $117k a year is what a new college graduate could easily make in the bay area. The first rung of career ladder at any of the top tech companies makes ~$150k [1]. At that level it is very doable to be living in the bay renting an apartment in an OK area with a family. [1] https://www.levels.fyi/ https://www.levels.fyi/
- sithadmin 8y ago
  >For those outside the bay, $117k a year is what a new college graduate could easily make in the bay area. Bullshit. That's what a college graduate with a CS, Finance or Accounting degree from a school targeted for recruiting by the biggest megacorps can make in the Bay Area. Those that didn't attend the right schools or programs aren't nearly so lucky. I can personally attest to that: my firm (still huge, but no unicorn) pays a good deal less than $117k/yr for fresh graduates with degrees in things like Finance, Accounting, Management, Information Systems, etc.
  - throwawaymath 8y ago
    It's not bullshit. $120k base salary (before RSUs and maybe a signing bonus) is "not even blink" territory for new undergrads from state universities. You don't need to be at a highly desirable university. You "only" need to pass the interview. That's not only the Bay Area either. A friend of mine has a sister who graduated from a downright forgettable school and landed a job with Google in NYC right after graduation. The base salary was $120k. Someone else I am acquainted with received an offer for $180k all-in compensation (base, bonus, RSUs) from Facebook as a new graduate from a middling school. It has very, very little to do with the school. It's the companies themselves. It's not even outlandish to get hired at the top tech companies without any college degree these days.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - akhilcacharya 8y ago
    I didn’t go to a target school (at least according to some of the companies I got offers from) and all of my offers eclipsed that number.
  - minhazm 8y ago
    My school isn't even in the top 100 and I was able to get interviews with most of the big tech companies. While I do agree it is harder, it definitely isn't impossible or unreasonable. Nowadays you can participate in hackathons and other events that recruiters attend that will allow you to show off your skills and also get in touch with recruiters. After that it's up to you to pass the interviews.
  - pm90 8y ago
    A good school gets you an interview (which is still admittedly huge for many major tech cos). Passing the interview is still required though.
librish 8y ago
It's not hard to live well on $117K in SF either. That's over $6K a month after tax. There are so many people living perfectly good lives on so much less. If you can't make $6k a month last easily without dependents you have really poor money management skills.
- sithadmin 8y ago
  It all comes down to what 'living well' entails. 'Living well' on $6k in net income someplace like Houston, Chicago, Denver, etc. is far, far nicer than what you can manage in SF or the Bay Area in general.
  - librish 8y ago
    And why does that matter in the context of this discussion? Who is claiming otherwise?
    - pm90 8y ago
      Good point. Everyone seems to want to have the same kind of life everywhere. You probably can't own a huge McMansion in SF Bay (well not anywhere convenient), but the city (and region) provides other benefits (great culture, food, weather, density of tech jobs etc) which are hard to factor in financial calculation.
- closeparen 8y ago
  Two assumptions about "live well": we want to be on track for homeownership, and we'll go for median rent rather than scraping the bottom of the market. $6000 income ($731) 401k contribution of 15% discounted by 50% total marginal tax rate ($2083) savings towards a goal of $150,000 in six years for a down-payment ($3200) rent on a median 1-bedroom apartment ------ -$14 How'd I do?
  - simonsarris 8y ago
    It looks like there are hundreds of 1 bedroom apartments for less than $3000 a month. https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_rent/San-Francisco/20330_rid/0_singlestory/paymenta_sort/37.842913,-122.329919,37.707608,-122.536739_rect/1_p/ https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_rent/San-Francisco/20330_ri... Why are you using 3200 a month?

JumpCrisscross 8y ago

> compared to what the same salary would buy in terms of quality of life nearly anywhere else in the country That same person probably wouldn't be worth $117k outside the Bay Area. Density, network and agglomeration effects are real.

sithadmin 8y ago
Yeah, but there's wiggle room there. $117k/yr in SF is equivalent to roughly $88k/yr in Houston, and it's arguable that $88k in Houston will buy you a far nicer quality of life than you could get for $117k in SF.

Zaheer 8y ago

For those outside the bay, $117k a year is what a new college graduate could easily make in the bay area. The first rung of career ladder at any of the top tech companies makes ~$150k [1]. At that level it is very doable to be living in the bay renting an apartment in an OK area with a family. [1] https://www.levels.fyi/ https://www.levels.fyi/

sithadmin 8y ago
>For those outside the bay, $117k a year is what a new college graduate could easily make in the bay area. Bullshit. That's what a college graduate with a CS, Finance or Accounting degree from a school targeted for recruiting by the biggest megacorps can make in the Bay Area. Those that didn't attend the right schools or programs aren't nearly so lucky. I can personally attest to that: my firm (still huge, but no unicorn) pays a good deal less than $117k/yr for fresh graduates with degrees in things like Finance, Accounting, Management, Information Systems, etc.
- throwawaymath 8y ago
  It's not bullshit. $120k base salary (before RSUs and maybe a signing bonus) is "not even blink" territory for new undergrads from state universities. You don't need to be at a highly desirable university. You "only" need to pass the interview. That's not only the Bay Area either. A friend of mine has a sister who graduated from a downright forgettable school and landed a job with Google in NYC right after graduation. The base salary was $120k. Someone else I am acquainted with received an offer for $180k all-in compensation (base, bonus, RSUs) from Facebook as a new graduate from a middling school. It has very, very little to do with the school. It's the companies themselves. It's not even outlandish to get hired at the top tech companies without any college degree these days.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- akhilcacharya 8y ago
  I didn’t go to a target school (at least according to some of the companies I got offers from) and all of my offers eclipsed that number.
- minhazm 8y ago
  My school isn't even in the top 100 and I was able to get interviews with most of the big tech companies. While I do agree it is harder, it definitely isn't impossible or unreasonable. Nowadays you can participate in hackathons and other events that recruiters attend that will allow you to show off your skills and also get in touch with recruiters. After that it's up to you to pass the interviews.
- pm90 8y ago
  A good school gets you an interview (which is still admittedly huge for many major tech cos). Passing the interview is still required though.

librish 8y ago

It's not hard to live well on $117K in SF either. That's over $6K a month after tax. There are so many people living perfectly good lives on so much less. If you can't make $6k a month last easily without dependents you have really poor money management skills.

sithadmin 8y ago
It all comes down to what 'living well' entails. 'Living well' on $6k in net income someplace like Houston, Chicago, Denver, etc. is far, far nicer than what you can manage in SF or the Bay Area in general.
- librish 8y ago
  And why does that matter in the context of this discussion? Who is claiming otherwise?
  - pm90 8y ago
    Good point. Everyone seems to want to have the same kind of life everywhere. You probably can't own a huge McMansion in SF Bay (well not anywhere convenient), but the city (and region) provides other benefits (great culture, food, weather, density of tech jobs etc) which are hard to factor in financial calculation.
closeparen 8y ago
Two assumptions about "live well": we want to be on track for homeownership, and we'll go for median rent rather than scraping the bottom of the market. $6000 income ($731) 401k contribution of 15% discounted by 50% total marginal tax rate ($2083) savings towards a goal of $150,000 in six years for a down-payment ($3200) rent on a median 1-bedroom apartment ------ -$14 How'd I do?
- simonsarris 8y ago
  It looks like there are hundreds of 1 bedroom apartments for less than $3000 a month. https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_rent/San-Francisco/20330_rid/0_singlestory/paymenta_sort/37.842913,-122.329919,37.707608,-122.536739_rect/1_p/ https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_rent/San-Francisco/20330_ri... Why are you using 3200 a month?