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It is mindboggling to me that ancient humans could have had such an impact that it's still seen today without concrete, stones, or any lasting structure. Just d

It is mindboggling to me that ancient humans could have had such an impact that it's still seen today without concrete, stones, or any lasting structure. Just digging a ditch, then forgetting about it for two thousand years, until one day you can see dark lines in the grass. Absolutely staggering. I wish they knew that they'd have made such a long-lasting impression on the Earth.

Baeocystin 8y ago
Inuit whaler's leftovers from four centuries ago are still detectable due to elevated nutrient levels in the ponds that were next to where they butchered their take. http://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/101/6/1613.full.pdf http://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/101/6/1613.full.pdf Genuinely surprised me when I first read about it.
- arethuza 8y ago
  Near to the Scottish village where I grew up there was a cliff sided promontory reaching out into the sea - this had once held a Pictish fort from well over 1000 years ago and you can easily pick out fragments of burned wood from areas of erosion. Perhaps it was burned down as part of an early Viking raid (there were notable battles against the Vikings in the area) - who knows? Edit: Stuff like that is one of the reasons I love living in the UK - the hill behind the house where I currently live has a staggering amount of history - from a Roman camp of Agricola, to a dark age fort, to medieval stuff, 19th century industry and 20th century wars. And that's one small fairly unexceptional hill.....
  - toomanybeersies 8y ago
    That's what I find so fascinating about living in New Zealand. There are pubs in the Europe that are older than the first human settlements in New Zealand. Sean's Bar in Ireland dates back to 900 CE. The first people to arrive in New Zealand, the Maori, arrived c. 1300 CE. New Zealand was the last major land mass to be settled by humans apart from Antarctica. In 700 years, humans managed to destroy 2/3 of New Zealand's forest cover and drive to extinction the largest bird in existence (at the time) and also the largest eagle in existence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Zealand_animals_extinct_in_the_Holocene https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Zealand_animals_ex...
theoh 8y ago
Iron age hill forts and stone age burials can be very prominent features of the landscape. It's not just latent, occasional traces like the ones that have become visible in the last few weeks which survive. They could build to last in the stone age, and there's no reason to believe that they would be surprised that their monuments are still standing today... When it comes to the latent evidence of human occupation, I guess it's a bit more unexpected for it to become so visible to us. But even stone age cooking fires leave very permanent traces. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulacht_fiadh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulacht_fiadh
- arethuza 8y ago
  Skara Brae on Orkney still has stone furniture from about 5 thousand years ago: http://www.orkneyjar.com/history/skarabrae/furniture.htm http://www.orkneyjar.com/history/skarabrae/furniture.htm
jakoblorz 8y ago
Now imagine what we will leave! And we know that we are making "such a long-lasting impression on the Earth"
- JdeBP 8y ago
  Douglas Adams' idea of an "entire geological layer of compressed shoes" sounds a lot less daft than it used to. (-: * https://scientificamerican.com/article/humans-leave-a-telltale-residue-on-earth1/ https://scientificamerican.com/article/humans-leave-a-tellta...
madaxe_again 8y ago
From my house, in North Wales, I can see a vast landscape shaped hugely by ancient hands - Snowdonia. The hills were once heavily forested, and held springs and glades in which Mesolithic, Celtic and Roman peoples lived and farmed - but they are now all moorland, as the trees were felled thousands of years ago, for construction and grazing. Much of what we think of as natural landscape was made by man. Even that which is patently unnatural passes without much consideration- the neighbouring farm sits smack atop a Roman fort (situated on an inconvenient hilltop between a known fort on the conwy river and a known fort atop a mountain, which has a view to the sea on one side and our hill, but not the river, on the other) - and my garden atop a Roman road - and nobody knows. The dead giveaway was when we took the mouldering plaster (gypsum atop lime) off the internal walls of the house, to find dressed masonry, and one slab with part of a funerary inscription upon it - the cottage was built from spoilage from the road and tombs that lined it - 400 years ago they would have just been some handily squared off chunks of stone, ideal to build with.
- lawlessone 8y ago
  >Much of what we think of as natural landscape was made by man. We have similar in Ireland, blanket bogs here were essentially man made.
- corin_ 8y ago
  I’m not a local or an expert in this area, but do spend a week or two at least once a year in the mountains, either the Lake District or Wales, so have had a few conversations about this in the past. > ”as the trees were felled thousands of years ago” Might you have a source on this you could share? I was under the impression that at least the majority of the deforestation happened in recent centuries or even decades, rather than thousands of years. I did a quick google and didn’t immediately find much detail, although this [0] article from the Independant claims “half of its ancient woodland lost since the 1930s” talking about Britain as a whole. Maybe it happened much earlier in North Wales? Anyway, wherever the line is between natural and man-made, I still really love Snowdonia - was there most recently two months ago (staying quite near you as it happens, a few miles inland from Conwy), it’s such a nice place to get away from city life for a little. There’s a guy who has been campaigning / writing a lot about this subject (I think specifically about the Lake District but might be wrong) pushing for more tree planting, but I can’t think of the name right now... Edit: George Monbiot. I don’t have time right now to revisit his writing but just remember he’s interesting on the topic. [0] https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/worrying-slump-in-tree-planting-prompts-fears-of-deforestation-1997344.html https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/worrying-sl...

Baeocystin 8y ago

Inuit whaler's leftovers from four centuries ago are still detectable due to elevated nutrient levels in the ponds that were next to where they butchered their take. http://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/101/6/1613.full.pdf http://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/101/6/1613.full.pdf Genuinely surprised me when I first read about it.

arethuza 8y ago
Near to the Scottish village where I grew up there was a cliff sided promontory reaching out into the sea - this had once held a Pictish fort from well over 1000 years ago and you can easily pick out fragments of burned wood from areas of erosion. Perhaps it was burned down as part of an early Viking raid (there were notable battles against the Vikings in the area) - who knows? Edit: Stuff like that is one of the reasons I love living in the UK - the hill behind the house where I currently live has a staggering amount of history - from a Roman camp of Agricola, to a dark age fort, to medieval stuff, 19th century industry and 20th century wars. And that's one small fairly unexceptional hill.....
- toomanybeersies 8y ago
  That's what I find so fascinating about living in New Zealand. There are pubs in the Europe that are older than the first human settlements in New Zealand. Sean's Bar in Ireland dates back to 900 CE. The first people to arrive in New Zealand, the Maori, arrived c. 1300 CE. New Zealand was the last major land mass to be settled by humans apart from Antarctica. In 700 years, humans managed to destroy 2/3 of New Zealand's forest cover and drive to extinction the largest bird in existence (at the time) and also the largest eagle in existence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Zealand_animals_extinct_in_the_Holocene https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Zealand_animals_ex...

theoh 8y ago

Iron age hill forts and stone age burials can be very prominent features of the landscape. It's not just latent, occasional traces like the ones that have become visible in the last few weeks which survive. They could build to last in the stone age, and there's no reason to believe that they would be surprised that their monuments are still standing today... When it comes to the latent evidence of human occupation, I guess it's a bit more unexpected for it to become so visible to us. But even stone age cooking fires leave very permanent traces. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulacht_fiadh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulacht_fiadh

arethuza 8y ago
Skara Brae on Orkney still has stone furniture from about 5 thousand years ago: http://www.orkneyjar.com/history/skarabrae/furniture.htm http://www.orkneyjar.com/history/skarabrae/furniture.htm

jakoblorz 8y ago

Now imagine what we will leave! And we know that we are making "such a long-lasting impression on the Earth"

JdeBP 8y ago
Douglas Adams' idea of an "entire geological layer of compressed shoes" sounds a lot less daft than it used to. (-: * https://scientificamerican.com/article/humans-leave-a-telltale-residue-on-earth1/ https://scientificamerican.com/article/humans-leave-a-tellta...

madaxe_again 8y ago

From my house, in North Wales, I can see a vast landscape shaped hugely by ancient hands - Snowdonia. The hills were once heavily forested, and held springs and glades in which Mesolithic, Celtic and Roman peoples lived and farmed - but they are now all moorland, as the trees were felled thousands of years ago, for construction and grazing. Much of what we think of as natural landscape was made by man. Even that which is patently unnatural passes without much consideration- the neighbouring farm sits smack atop a Roman fort (situated on an inconvenient hilltop between a known fort on the conwy river and a known fort atop a mountain, which has a view to the sea on one side and our hill, but not the river, on the other) - and my garden atop a Roman road - and nobody knows. The dead giveaway was when we took the mouldering plaster (gypsum atop lime) off the internal walls of the house, to find dressed masonry, and one slab with part of a funerary inscription upon it - the cottage was built from spoilage from the road and tombs that lined it - 400 years ago they would have just been some handily squared off chunks of stone, ideal to build with.

lawlessone 8y ago
>Much of what we think of as natural landscape was made by man. We have similar in Ireland, blanket bogs here were essentially man made.
corin_ 8y ago
I’m not a local or an expert in this area, but do spend a week or two at least once a year in the mountains, either the Lake District or Wales, so have had a few conversations about this in the past. > ”as the trees were felled thousands of years ago” Might you have a source on this you could share? I was under the impression that at least the majority of the deforestation happened in recent centuries or even decades, rather than thousands of years. I did a quick google and didn’t immediately find much detail, although this [0] article from the Independant claims “half of its ancient woodland lost since the 1930s” talking about Britain as a whole. Maybe it happened much earlier in North Wales? Anyway, wherever the line is between natural and man-made, I still really love Snowdonia - was there most recently two months ago (staying quite near you as it happens, a few miles inland from Conwy), it’s such a nice place to get away from city life for a little. There’s a guy who has been campaigning / writing a lot about this subject (I think specifically about the Lake District but might be wrong) pushing for more tree planting, but I can’t think of the name right now... Edit: George Monbiot. I don’t have time right now to revisit his writing but just remember he’s interesting on the topic. [0] https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/worrying-slump-in-tree-planting-prompts-fears-of-deforestation-1997344.html https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/worrying-sl...