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I've wondered about HBO's future. I see a few problems: First, it used to be the only source for intelligent programming. Now I can get as good or better conte

I've wondered about HBO's future. I see a few problems: First, it used to be the only source for intelligent programming. Now I can get as good or better content from Netflix, Amazon, and smaller arthouse-oriented channels. HBO doesn't stand out to me. Second, streaming channels are a la carte, not bundled, and I'd have to pay cable TV-sized bills to subscribe to 100 channels. HBO doesn't seem to offer enough to be worth a separate subscription. Finally, the lack of an integrated listing UI means that I have to open the HBO channel to see what's playing there. It's rarely worth the effort with so many other options that have more content.

wil421 8y ago
Netflix takes the shotgun approach, put out as much programming as possible and something will stick. Amazon has yet to provide anything but a bad UI/UX on top of tv or music I can find from a much better competitor. Silicon Valley, Westworld, Vice, and Game of Thrones are worth it plus a steady stream of new movies. Not to mention their older shows. HBO’s quality is much higher than Netflix and Amazon doesn’t even compare.
- danso 8y ago
  I do agree that HBO's original series are yet unmatched, and that Netflix's and Prime's efforts have not yet reached the same level (I'm personally not a huge fan of "House of Cards"). But HBO as a paid service isn't just competing with exclusives, but with 3rd-party content that Netflix/Prime can license. On Prime, not only is there the soon-to-be exclusive "The Expanse", but they have USA Network's "Mr. Robot", SyFy's "BSG", all the Star Treks (sans "Discovery"), BBC's "Downton Abbey" and "Peep Show". They even have the best of HBO's classics, e.g. Sopranos, Deadwood, Curb Your Enthusiasm, and the remastered version of The Wire. I used to subscribe to HBO but now only do so when their big drama exclusives are in season (GoT and WW).
  - Apocryphon 8y ago
    GP also forgets that Amazon has "The Man in the High Castle", which might be their one big prestige drama.
  - c22 8y ago
    If you're only interested in serialized content I can see how it might be easy to exhaust HBO's offerings. But any time I just want to grab some popcorn and watch a nice old fashioned 110-minute-contained narrative HBO Now has my back with 100+ movies, almost all of which I want to watch. Sometimes I spend several minutes deciding which movie to watch cause they all sound so good. If I do this 3 times a month it's easily worth the $15 to me. I also spend a long time picking movies to watch on Netflix and Amazon, but that's because even the stuff that sounds good has a non-negligible chance of being bad to mediocre and there is such a huge swath of options that just sound (and are) terrible. When it comes to in house content Netflix's best attempt so far (House of Cards) barely reaches the quality level of HBO's B-roll. I could probably lose Netflix or Prime without missing a beat, but I will be chagrined if ATT fucks with the format of HBO Now/Go.
throwawaymath 8y ago
I guess this is a matter of opinion, but I’ll bite anyway. What content do you watch from Netflix or Amazon that you find to be comparable to HBO’s tentpole programming? To be honest with you, I find Amazon’s content to be...well, bad. On the other hand Netflix has a few good shows, but the company is clearly prioritizing quantity over quality. Not only does its content not have the awards or acclaim HBO’s garners, but it just churns out forgettable movie after forgettable movie. A lot of Netflix’s content is becoming the new “direct to TV” movie. HBO’s approach is to produce character-driven and thought-provoking programming which is ahead of the curve. That’s not everyone’s cup of tea when it comes to entertainment, but they naturally achieve greater critical acclaim and cult status. It’s hard to think of a way most of Netflix or Amazon’s content can be compared to HBO’s except, “It’s entertaining.” In what way do you see Netflix or Amazon innovating? For what definition of “good” do you find your favorite Netflix and Amazon shows comparing favorably with HBO’s? For a while I held high hopes of Netflix becoming a new HBO because House of Cards was exceptional. But they didn’t exactly make that a trend. And while we’re on the subject of UI, Netflix is so hellbent on having me binge watch the day away that I can’t hover over a title for more than 1 second without it blaring a crappy trailer at me. The native Netflix experience (LG TV, AppleTV) has me scurrying from title to title like a mad squirrel hoping to read a description without triggering the trailer.
- SquirrelOnFire 8y ago
  House of Cards (First 2 seasons at least), Stranger Things, Orange is the New Black, Marco Polo, Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, Dear White People, Bojack Horseman, and to a lesser extent some of the Marvel shows (Jessica Jones, Daredevil, Luke Cage, Punisher), not to mention how much amazing standup comedy Netflix puts out. Sure, there's a lot of junk, but Netflix is succeeding in becoming HBO faster than HBO is becoming Netflix.
  - throwawaymath 8y ago
    I'll give you the standup comedy selection because I agree it's really quite good. I also like Stranger Things but can't comment on the others. But I actively dislike the Marvel content on Netflix. I find its characters one-dimensional and its plot unmotivated. Some of this is probably the transition from comic books to TV, but on the other hand I love almost everything from the cinematic universe. I think the biggest problem is that the Marvel cinematic universe seems to have better acting, better writing, superior interconnectedness overall and stakes that are well calibrated to its cast of heroes. In contrast, I find most of the characters' hyperfocus on specific neighborhoods in Marvel's Netflix shows to be frankly ridiculous and annoying. I also find myself wishing the main characters would just kill the villains a few episodes into each series. It boggles my mind how much waffling and angst goes on. As a followup to your last comment though, my point had nothing to do with HBO becoming Netflix. I don't even think HBO should try to become Netflix at all. I would prefer for HBO to remain the curated content space that it is, precisely because I'm concerned with the quality of content. Strictly speaking, the ratio of quality content to junk on HBO is far, far higher than Netflix's. It's not really about HBO or Netflix being more successful in becoming the other, it's about quality. Regardless of whether or not HBO is close to becoming Netflix, Netflix is so far from becoming HBO I don't even think they could recognize an interstate map outlining the route.

wil421 8y ago

Netflix takes the shotgun approach, put out as much programming as possible and something will stick. Amazon has yet to provide anything but a bad UI/UX on top of tv or music I can find from a much better competitor. Silicon Valley, Westworld, Vice, and Game of Thrones are worth it plus a steady stream of new movies. Not to mention their older shows. HBO’s quality is much higher than Netflix and Amazon doesn’t even compare.

danso 8y ago
I do agree that HBO's original series are yet unmatched, and that Netflix's and Prime's efforts have not yet reached the same level (I'm personally not a huge fan of "House of Cards"). But HBO as a paid service isn't just competing with exclusives, but with 3rd-party content that Netflix/Prime can license. On Prime, not only is there the soon-to-be exclusive "The Expanse", but they have USA Network's "Mr. Robot", SyFy's "BSG", all the Star Treks (sans "Discovery"), BBC's "Downton Abbey" and "Peep Show". They even have the best of HBO's classics, e.g. Sopranos, Deadwood, Curb Your Enthusiasm, and the remastered version of The Wire. I used to subscribe to HBO but now only do so when their big drama exclusives are in season (GoT and WW).
- Apocryphon 8y ago
  GP also forgets that Amazon has "The Man in the High Castle", which might be their one big prestige drama.
- c22 8y ago
  If you're only interested in serialized content I can see how it might be easy to exhaust HBO's offerings. But any time I just want to grab some popcorn and watch a nice old fashioned 110-minute-contained narrative HBO Now has my back with 100+ movies, almost all of which I want to watch. Sometimes I spend several minutes deciding which movie to watch cause they all sound so good. If I do this 3 times a month it's easily worth the $15 to me. I also spend a long time picking movies to watch on Netflix and Amazon, but that's because even the stuff that sounds good has a non-negligible chance of being bad to mediocre and there is such a huge swath of options that just sound (and are) terrible. When it comes to in house content Netflix's best attempt so far (House of Cards) barely reaches the quality level of HBO's B-roll. I could probably lose Netflix or Prime without missing a beat, but I will be chagrined if ATT fucks with the format of HBO Now/Go.

throwawaymath 8y ago

I guess this is a matter of opinion, but I’ll bite anyway. What content do you watch from Netflix or Amazon that you find to be comparable to HBO’s tentpole programming? To be honest with you, I find Amazon’s content to be...well, bad. On the other hand Netflix has a few good shows, but the company is clearly prioritizing quantity over quality. Not only does its content not have the awards or acclaim HBO’s garners, but it just churns out forgettable movie after forgettable movie. A lot of Netflix’s content is becoming the new “direct to TV” movie. HBO’s approach is to produce character-driven and thought-provoking programming which is ahead of the curve. That’s not everyone’s cup of tea when it comes to entertainment, but they naturally achieve greater critical acclaim and cult status. It’s hard to think of a way most of Netflix or Amazon’s content can be compared to HBO’s except, “It’s entertaining.” In what way do you see Netflix or Amazon innovating? For what definition of “good” do you find your favorite Netflix and Amazon shows comparing favorably with HBO’s? For a while I held high hopes of Netflix becoming a new HBO because House of Cards was exceptional. But they didn’t exactly make that a trend. And while we’re on the subject of UI, Netflix is so hellbent on having me binge watch the day away that I can’t hover over a title for more than 1 second without it blaring a crappy trailer at me. The native Netflix experience (LG TV, AppleTV) has me scurrying from title to title like a mad squirrel hoping to read a description without triggering the trailer.

SquirrelOnFire 8y ago
House of Cards (First 2 seasons at least), Stranger Things, Orange is the New Black, Marco Polo, Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, Dear White People, Bojack Horseman, and to a lesser extent some of the Marvel shows (Jessica Jones, Daredevil, Luke Cage, Punisher), not to mention how much amazing standup comedy Netflix puts out. Sure, there's a lot of junk, but Netflix is succeeding in becoming HBO faster than HBO is becoming Netflix.
- throwawaymath 8y ago
  I'll give you the standup comedy selection because I agree it's really quite good. I also like Stranger Things but can't comment on the others. But I actively dislike the Marvel content on Netflix. I find its characters one-dimensional and its plot unmotivated. Some of this is probably the transition from comic books to TV, but on the other hand I love almost everything from the cinematic universe. I think the biggest problem is that the Marvel cinematic universe seems to have better acting, better writing, superior interconnectedness overall and stakes that are well calibrated to its cast of heroes. In contrast, I find most of the characters' hyperfocus on specific neighborhoods in Marvel's Netflix shows to be frankly ridiculous and annoying. I also find myself wishing the main characters would just kill the villains a few episodes into each series. It boggles my mind how much waffling and angst goes on. As a followup to your last comment though, my point had nothing to do with HBO becoming Netflix. I don't even think HBO should try to become Netflix at all. I would prefer for HBO to remain the curated content space that it is, precisely because I'm concerned with the quality of content. Strictly speaking, the ratio of quality content to junk on HBO is far, far higher than Netflix's. It's not really about HBO or Netflix being more successful in becoming the other, it's about quality. Regardless of whether or not HBO is close to becoming Netflix, Netflix is so far from becoming HBO I don't even think they could recognize an interstate map outlining the route.