4 ms·

> People use cryptocurrency too. For value transfer, and to a more limited extent, for dapps like Augur. Soooo, buying drugs and illegal gambling? Sure, I'll g

by hudon 8y ago

> People use cryptocurrency too. For value transfer, and to a more limited extent, for dapps like Augur. Soooo, buying drugs and illegal gambling? Sure, I'll give you that one. My argument rephrased: "Because cryptocurrency investors have repeatedly made claims that don't pan out, we can be reasonably skeptical and concerned about their energy consumption until they actually fix it or at the very least provide peer-reviewed scientific analysis on how it will be fixed."

darawk 8y ago
> Soooo, buying drugs and illegal gambling? Sure, I'll give you that one. Yes, although also remittance payments, and some usage in places with unstable currencies like Venezuela. Hard to gauge how much, though. > My argument rephrased: "Because cryptocurrency investors have repeatedly made claims that don't pan out, we can be reasonably skeptical and concerned about their energy consumption until they actually fix it or at the very least provide peer-reviewed scientific analysis on how it will be fixed." While that is, in the abstract, a fair argument I don't think there are actually that many examples of it in practice. Vitalik didn't claim Ethereum would be a world computer right away. He's always been clear and explicit about the scaling roadmap. I don't think the promises of the core devs of Ethereum or Bitcoin have been overstated or unmet. If you believe otherwise though, i'd be happy to listen to your argument.
- opencl 8y ago
  Bitcoin is a solution to unstable currencies in the same way that gasoline is a fire extinguisher. People in Venezuela that want to actually eat are using USD.
  - arisAlexis 8y ago
    they cannot send or receive usd from abroad. they can do it with bitcoin. you get now the value proposition of a global currency that is not government controlled?
    - opencl 8y ago
      People in Venezuela certainly do send and receive USD from abroad, it is obviously the only way it gets into the country. You can go to a grocery store and buy food with USD. This is what people are actually doing. I suppose you can try to convince the people at your local grocery store to accept cryptocurrencies but good luck with that. And good luck using cryptocurrencies in a country that suffers from frequent blackouts of both electricity and internet.
      - aclsid 8y ago
        I'm sorry but I currently live in Venezuela and what you are saying is wrong. Very few places in Caracas or hotels will actually take USD for payment since it is considered illegal unless you go through the regular channels with the idiotic govt exchange rate. Bitcoin not only thrives here and allows you to bypass the whole craziness with the economy by using exchanges like localbitcoins.com where somebody would deposit the amount of bitcoin you sold to your local bank account. This way you just keep your money in bitcoins if you want. This is specially true with miners.
      - arisAlexis 8y ago
        for sure people that live in Europe cannot deposit good amounts of USD to send through the bank to their relatives there. I know this for a fact. I think you are misinformed.
    - chrisco255 8y ago
      aris is technically correct. They are not legally allowed to bring a ton of USD into the country (if they're even well enough off to do so). And legally, they have to do so at government-mandated exchange rates (which no one does, because everyone buys/sells on the black market). Surely people are using USD where possible. But likely, they're HODLing their USDs (against the rapidly inflating Bolivares) wherever possible, too. Meanwhile, no doubt some are using crypto to supplement their incomes/savings as well.
      - dragonwriter 8y ago
- briandear 8y ago
  Let’s say I am in Venenzuela and I have some bitcoin. Now what do I do with it? Can I pay my rent with it? Buy food? Of course not. It isn’t solving any problem a USD account isn’t solving. Converting Bitcoin into anything actually usable is the problem.
  - aclsid 8y ago
    You can use localbitcoins.com or localethereum.com and somebody will buy your cripto and give you bolivares in your local bank account. That way you save a trip to the US to open an account, which most people can't afford anyway
jMyles 8y ago
> Soooo, buying drugs and illegal gambling? Sure, I'll give you that one. Well, why is this so easy for you to brush aside? If indeed blockchain tech can successfully subvert bad public policy, isn't that pretty remarkable in its own right?
- hannasanarion 8y ago
  No it isn't. You could do the same thing with dollars in the mail. All bitcoin does is make it easier to commit shady transactions.
profalseidol 8y ago
> or at the very least provide peer-reviewed scientific analysis on how it will be fixed https://eips.ethereum.org/EIPS/eip-1011 https://eips.ethereum.org/EIPS/eip-1011 There you go. Read it then make your arguments against it. If not, then shut-up.
- dang 8y ago
  Being rude like that will get you banned on HN, so please don't do that again, regardless of how right you are or wrong someone else may be. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

by hudon 8y ago

darawk 8y ago

> Soooo, buying drugs and illegal gambling? Sure, I'll give you that one. Yes, although also remittance payments, and some usage in places with unstable currencies like Venezuela. Hard to gauge how much, though. > My argument rephrased: "Because cryptocurrency investors have repeatedly made claims that don't pan out, we can be reasonably skeptical and concerned about their energy consumption until they actually fix it or at the very least provide peer-reviewed scientific analysis on how it will be fixed." While that is, in the abstract, a fair argument I don't think there are actually that many examples of it in practice. Vitalik didn't claim Ethereum would be a world computer right away. He's always been clear and explicit about the scaling roadmap. I don't think the promises of the core devs of Ethereum or Bitcoin have been overstated or unmet. If you believe otherwise though, i'd be happy to listen to your argument.

opencl 8y ago
Bitcoin is a solution to unstable currencies in the same way that gasoline is a fire extinguisher. People in Venezuela that want to actually eat are using USD.
- arisAlexis 8y ago
  they cannot send or receive usd from abroad. they can do it with bitcoin. you get now the value proposition of a global currency that is not government controlled?
  - opencl 8y ago
    People in Venezuela certainly do send and receive USD from abroad, it is obviously the only way it gets into the country. You can go to a grocery store and buy food with USD. This is what people are actually doing. I suppose you can try to convince the people at your local grocery store to accept cryptocurrencies but good luck with that. And good luck using cryptocurrencies in a country that suffers from frequent blackouts of both electricity and internet.
    - aclsid 8y ago
      I'm sorry but I currently live in Venezuela and what you are saying is wrong. Very few places in Caracas or hotels will actually take USD for payment since it is considered illegal unless you go through the regular channels with the idiotic govt exchange rate. Bitcoin not only thrives here and allows you to bypass the whole craziness with the economy by using exchanges like localbitcoins.com where somebody would deposit the amount of bitcoin you sold to your local bank account. This way you just keep your money in bitcoins if you want. This is specially true with miners.
    - arisAlexis 8y ago
      for sure people that live in Europe cannot deposit good amounts of USD to send through the bank to their relatives there. I know this for a fact. I think you are misinformed.
  - chrisco255 8y ago
    aris is technically correct. They are not legally allowed to bring a ton of USD into the country (if they're even well enough off to do so). And legally, they have to do so at government-mandated exchange rates (which no one does, because everyone buys/sells on the black market). Surely people are using USD where possible. But likely, they're HODLing their USDs (against the rapidly inflating Bolivares) wherever possible, too. Meanwhile, no doubt some are using crypto to supplement their incomes/savings as well.
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
briandear 8y ago
Let’s say I am in Venenzuela and I have some bitcoin. Now what do I do with it? Can I pay my rent with it? Buy food? Of course not. It isn’t solving any problem a USD account isn’t solving. Converting Bitcoin into anything actually usable is the problem.
- aclsid 8y ago
  You can use localbitcoins.com or localethereum.com and somebody will buy your cripto and give you bolivares in your local bank account. That way you save a trip to the US to open an account, which most people can't afford anyway

jMyles 8y ago

> Soooo, buying drugs and illegal gambling? Sure, I'll give you that one. Well, why is this so easy for you to brush aside? If indeed blockchain tech can successfully subvert bad public policy, isn't that pretty remarkable in its own right?

hannasanarion 8y ago
No it isn't. You could do the same thing with dollars in the mail. All bitcoin does is make it easier to commit shady transactions.

profalseidol 8y ago

> or at the very least provide peer-reviewed scientific analysis on how it will be fixed https://eips.ethereum.org/EIPS/eip-1011 https://eips.ethereum.org/EIPS/eip-1011 There you go. Read it then make your arguments against it. If not, then shut-up.

dang 8y ago
Being rude like that will get you banned on HN, so please don't do that again, regardless of how right you are or wrong someone else may be. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html