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I asked an expert in the beer trade about this recently and some of the big breweries (Molson Coors who make UK bestseller Carling, for instance) make their own

I asked an expert in the beer trade about this recently and some of the big breweries (Molson Coors who make UK bestseller Carling, for instance) make their own CO2 for supply chain security.

sandworm101 8y ago
I thought beer was naturally carbonated! Not being a drinker, I never gave it much thought.
- DonaldFisk 8y ago
  Depends what kind. Real ale contains yeast is naturally carbonated as it continues to ferment in the cask or bottle. In keg beer, after fermentation the yeast is filtered from it, the beer is pasteurized, and CO2 is added.
  - dogma1138 8y ago
    Real ale is an arbitrary definition large scale commercial brewing will not risk secondary bottle fermentation for many reasons from quality control to health and safety.
    - jsmith99 8y ago
      There are some large scale brewers doing it. Duvel alone apparently do 140 million litres a year.
    - DonaldFisk 8y ago
      My point was that by definition it's naturally carbonated and all other beer isn't. Cask conditioned ale is common throughout the UK and bottle conditioned ales are common in Belgium and elsewhere. (They're also usually higher rated than mass-produced beer but that wasn't the point I was making.)
    - jdietrich 8y ago
      >Real ale is an arbitrary definition In the same sense that any term has an arbitrary definition. The Campaign for Real Ale coined the term to defend the practice of cask and bottle conditioning of beer. Beer is only real ale if it's unfiltered, unpasteurised and is served without additional carbonation. There are plenty of breweries producing real ale on a large scale; many of them are subsidiaries of AB InBev, the world's largest brewing business. Filtered and/or pasteurised beer is more convenient to ship, but other food and drink manufacturers cope just fine with perishable products.
- WaxProlix 8y ago
  It often is -- when yeast ferments a substance, it releases CO2. During the fermentation of beer (or again most anything, but I'll just use beer as a shorthand), that CO2 is released through an airlock. When the beer is bottled, any beer made in large quantities will be sterilized first with potassium metabisulfite (I think) so that fermentation doesn't continue in the can, bottle, or keg. If you don't kill the yeast, or if you bottle your beer with an extra batch of yeast (called bottling yeast) and sugar, you'll get fermentation continuing in the bottle, which will result in the CO2 produced being absorbed into the liquid. Obviously this is not as precise and will create different flavors and mouthfeel as a beer ages. If you do kill the yeast but still want fizz, you just force carb your beer with CO2 from a container.
yread 8y ago
Fermentation produces huge amounts of CO2 and some breweries collect it and sell it as a byproduct
- dogma1138 8y ago
  Large scale breweries are CO2 consumers not producers small scale production with natural carboninzation can potentially produce CO2 but the majority of it is produced form lime stone and other minerals afaik. I’m not aware of any breweries actually collecting it for sale the amounts produced will be so minute and the collection process will be so expensive that it can’t make financial sense.
  - AnonymousPlanet 8y ago
    German regulations ("Reinheitsgebot") explicitly forbid adding CO2. So pretty much every major brewery in Germany does not add CO2 into their product. They do use CO2 and other gasses to pressurize casks, however.
    - Symbiote 8y ago
      Some may be like Faxe in Denmark, which uses the CO₂ gained from brewing beer to make soft drinks. (As I read somewhere a week or two ago.)
    - dogma1138 8y ago
      Reinheitsgebot isn’t mandatory and covers only Bavaria afaik if you don’t follow those rules you can’t use the trademark on the label but you can sell beer the vast majority of beer in Germany is not carbonated trough secondary fermentation.
  - yread 8y ago
    It's done regularly in Europe https://www.automationworld.com/beer-brewing-and-carbon-dioxide-recycling https://www.automationworld.com/beer-brewing-and-carbon-diox... https://books.google.nl/books?id=0os_gIvG_ccC&pg=PA349&lpg=PA349&dq=breweries+collecting+co2&source=bl&ots=W4uGe2Z_ur&sig=VfhsGiPaQsXh7oL19wkFp_u3nxY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi4tPKSg5PcAhWNyqQKHc0ODpQQ6AEIggEwDg#v=onepage&q=breweries%20collecting%20co2&f=false https://books.google.nl/books?id=0os_gIvG_ccC&pg=PA349&lpg=P... https://foodandbeverage.pentair.com/en/products/haffmans-co2-recovery https://foodandbeverage.pentair.com/en/products/haffmans-co2...
barbegal 8y ago
Technical details of this plant can be found at https://foodandbeverage.pentair.com/~/media/websites/food-and-beverage/downloads/haffmans/co2-heat-recovery-system-liquivap/co2-recovery_heat-recovery-system_liquivap_molson-coors_haffmans_case-study.pdf https://foodandbeverage.pentair.com/~/media/websites/food-an... This is possible because Molson Coors has the largest brewery in the UK and can brew CO2 producing ales and CO2 consuming lagers on the same site. For other brewers this investment wouldn't be economical.

I asked an expert in the beer trade about this recently and some of the big breweries (Molson Coors who make UK bestseller Carling, for instance) make their own CO2 for supply chain security.

sandworm101 8y ago

I thought beer was naturally carbonated! Not being a drinker, I never gave it much thought.

DonaldFisk 8y ago
Depends what kind. Real ale contains yeast is naturally carbonated as it continues to ferment in the cask or bottle. In keg beer, after fermentation the yeast is filtered from it, the beer is pasteurized, and CO2 is added.
- dogma1138 8y ago
  Real ale is an arbitrary definition large scale commercial brewing will not risk secondary bottle fermentation for many reasons from quality control to health and safety.
  - jsmith99 8y ago
    There are some large scale brewers doing it. Duvel alone apparently do 140 million litres a year.
  - DonaldFisk 8y ago
    My point was that by definition it's naturally carbonated and all other beer isn't. Cask conditioned ale is common throughout the UK and bottle conditioned ales are common in Belgium and elsewhere. (They're also usually higher rated than mass-produced beer but that wasn't the point I was making.)
  - jdietrich 8y ago
    >Real ale is an arbitrary definition In the same sense that any term has an arbitrary definition. The Campaign for Real Ale coined the term to defend the practice of cask and bottle conditioning of beer. Beer is only real ale if it's unfiltered, unpasteurised and is served without additional carbonation. There are plenty of breweries producing real ale on a large scale; many of them are subsidiaries of AB InBev, the world's largest brewing business. Filtered and/or pasteurised beer is more convenient to ship, but other food and drink manufacturers cope just fine with perishable products.
WaxProlix 8y ago
It often is -- when yeast ferments a substance, it releases CO2. During the fermentation of beer (or again most anything, but I'll just use beer as a shorthand), that CO2 is released through an airlock. When the beer is bottled, any beer made in large quantities will be sterilized first with potassium metabisulfite (I think) so that fermentation doesn't continue in the can, bottle, or keg. If you don't kill the yeast, or if you bottle your beer with an extra batch of yeast (called bottling yeast) and sugar, you'll get fermentation continuing in the bottle, which will result in the CO2 produced being absorbed into the liquid. Obviously this is not as precise and will create different flavors and mouthfeel as a beer ages. If you do kill the yeast but still want fizz, you just force carb your beer with CO2 from a container.

yread 8y ago

Fermentation produces huge amounts of CO2 and some breweries collect it and sell it as a byproduct

dogma1138 8y ago
Large scale breweries are CO2 consumers not producers small scale production with natural carboninzation can potentially produce CO2 but the majority of it is produced form lime stone and other minerals afaik. I’m not aware of any breweries actually collecting it for sale the amounts produced will be so minute and the collection process will be so expensive that it can’t make financial sense.
- AnonymousPlanet 8y ago
  German regulations ("Reinheitsgebot") explicitly forbid adding CO2. So pretty much every major brewery in Germany does not add CO2 into their product. They do use CO2 and other gasses to pressurize casks, however.
  - Symbiote 8y ago
    Some may be like Faxe in Denmark, which uses the CO₂ gained from brewing beer to make soft drinks. (As I read somewhere a week or two ago.)
  - dogma1138 8y ago
    Reinheitsgebot isn’t mandatory and covers only Bavaria afaik if you don’t follow those rules you can’t use the trademark on the label but you can sell beer the vast majority of beer in Germany is not carbonated trough secondary fermentation.
- yread 8y ago
  It's done regularly in Europe https://www.automationworld.com/beer-brewing-and-carbon-dioxide-recycling https://www.automationworld.com/beer-brewing-and-carbon-diox... https://books.google.nl/books?id=0os_gIvG_ccC&pg=PA349&lpg=PA349&dq=breweries+collecting+co2&source=bl&ots=W4uGe2Z_ur&sig=VfhsGiPaQsXh7oL19wkFp_u3nxY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi4tPKSg5PcAhWNyqQKHc0ODpQQ6AEIggEwDg#v=onepage&q=breweries%20collecting%20co2&f=false https://books.google.nl/books?id=0os_gIvG_ccC&pg=PA349&lpg=P... https://foodandbeverage.pentair.com/en/products/haffmans-co2-recovery https://foodandbeverage.pentair.com/en/products/haffmans-co2...

barbegal 8y ago

Technical details of this plant can be found at https://foodandbeverage.pentair.com/~/media/websites/food-and-beverage/downloads/haffmans/co2-heat-recovery-system-liquivap/co2-recovery_heat-recovery-system_liquivap_molson-coors_haffmans_case-study.pdf https://foodandbeverage.pentair.com/~/media/websites/food-an... This is possible because Molson Coors has the largest brewery in the UK and can brew CO2 producing ales and CO2 consuming lagers on the same site. For other brewers this investment wouldn't be economical.