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But if they don't know how to use the Chrome debugger then that probably correlates to not being able to do many other tasks. That few hours just teaching them

But if they don't know how to use the Chrome debugger then that probably correlates to not being able to do many other tasks. That few hours just teaching them how to use Chrome debugger turns into weeks of teaching them how to do lots of tasks. I have nothing against teaching new hires but for some businesses it is a significant cost so it makes sense to weed out applicants that won't be able to get stuck in straight away without a holding hand.

judofyr 8y ago
I see that knowledge about Chrome debugger probably correlates with knowledge about other tasks, but there has to be some false negatives, no? And mostly I find it a bit dishonest. If you have a preferred way to solve a problem in a company you should state it up-front: "Find this bug by using the debugger, not console.log, because that's the way we do it here". If the method does not matter, you should let they solve it their own way and see how efficient they are. > I have nothing against teaching new hires but for some businesses it is a significant cost so it makes sense to weed out applicants that won't be able to get stuck in straight away without a holding hand. Right, and that will show when they use so much time adding console.log everywhere without finding the bug. Measure the time and understanding of the problem/code/solution, not the tool.
- figgis 8y ago
  They didn't make a simple "if you can't use developer tools X way then I'm not hiring you" statement. >So far, two ways to pass: Would mean that they understand there are a hundred different paths to solve a simple problem. What is being looked for is familiarity with the tools you are expected to know. And littering a shit ton (not just a simple "Started-HH:MM:SS.mmm" or "Stopped-HH:MM:SS.mmm" with timestamps) of console.log statements when you first start debugging is a pretty fair red flag.
  - judofyr 8y ago
    > What is being looked for is familiarity with the tools you are expected to know. Right. So just tell them straight out that "hey, can you show us how you would use the Chrome debugger to solve this?" instead of making a trap out of it?
    - 0xfeba 8y ago
      I do. I say, I would use the debugger to find the problem, but how would you approach it?
- deleted 8y ago
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tchaffee 8y ago
I don't know Chrome debugger because one of the first things I did was to get VS Code to control Chrome debugger so I can set breakpoints while looking at code with the font and highlighting I'm familiar with. Weeding out applicants is dangerous if you're not trying hard to disprove first impressions or wrong answers.
- 0xfeba 8y ago
  If you could explain or show how you connected VS code to act as the debugger for Chrome I would let you and you could use VS code instead. I would also be impressed. I didn't mean to imply they had to use Chrome.
  - Merad 8y ago
    > I would also be impressed. There's nothing to it, most people just apparently don't know that it's possible. Chrome, Firefox, and I assume all the major browsers support remote debugging, your IDE just need to know how to send them commands. All you need to do is install the Chrome/FF debugging plugin and click 'Start Debugging'. A settings file should open for you to configure the url to launch.
    - tchaffee 8y ago
      There are some details though. If you are using webpack you need to use the right 'devtool' settings to get the source line numbers to match up.
    - 0xfeba 8y ago
      That's a lot more effort than lots of people bother with. At least, from the pool of people we interview. But I have no say in that.
  - tchaffee 8y ago
    How would I do that when I was handed your laptop? I would assume that's part of the constraints and revert to console.log, like I usually do when it's not my laptop. Good interviews are hard to design. You have to be super careful that you are testing for what you really think you are. I've let people use their own laptop, search for answers, use StackOverflow, and ask me questions. Just like we all do in real life.
deleted 8y ago
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judofyr 8y ago

I see that knowledge about Chrome debugger probably correlates with knowledge about other tasks, but there has to be some false negatives, no? And mostly I find it a bit dishonest. If you have a preferred way to solve a problem in a company you should state it up-front: "Find this bug by using the debugger, not console.log, because that's the way we do it here". If the method does not matter, you should let they solve it their own way and see how efficient they are. > I have nothing against teaching new hires but for some businesses it is a significant cost so it makes sense to weed out applicants that won't be able to get stuck in straight away without a holding hand. Right, and that will show when they use so much time adding console.log everywhere without finding the bug. Measure the time and understanding of the problem/code/solution, not the tool.

figgis 8y ago
They didn't make a simple "if you can't use developer tools X way then I'm not hiring you" statement. >So far, two ways to pass: Would mean that they understand there are a hundred different paths to solve a simple problem. What is being looked for is familiarity with the tools you are expected to know. And littering a shit ton (not just a simple "Started-HH:MM:SS.mmm" or "Stopped-HH:MM:SS.mmm" with timestamps) of console.log statements when you first start debugging is a pretty fair red flag.
- judofyr 8y ago
  > What is being looked for is familiarity with the tools you are expected to know. Right. So just tell them straight out that "hey, can you show us how you would use the Chrome debugger to solve this?" instead of making a trap out of it?
  - 0xfeba 8y ago
    I do. I say, I would use the debugger to find the problem, but how would you approach it?
deleted 8y ago
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tchaffee 8y ago

I don't know Chrome debugger because one of the first things I did was to get VS Code to control Chrome debugger so I can set breakpoints while looking at code with the font and highlighting I'm familiar with. Weeding out applicants is dangerous if you're not trying hard to disprove first impressions or wrong answers.

0xfeba 8y ago
If you could explain or show how you connected VS code to act as the debugger for Chrome I would let you and you could use VS code instead. I would also be impressed. I didn't mean to imply they had to use Chrome.
- Merad 8y ago
  > I would also be impressed. There's nothing to it, most people just apparently don't know that it's possible. Chrome, Firefox, and I assume all the major browsers support remote debugging, your IDE just need to know how to send them commands. All you need to do is install the Chrome/FF debugging plugin and click 'Start Debugging'. A settings file should open for you to configure the url to launch.
  - tchaffee 8y ago
    There are some details though. If you are using webpack you need to use the right 'devtool' settings to get the source line numbers to match up.
  - 0xfeba 8y ago
    That's a lot more effort than lots of people bother with. At least, from the pool of people we interview. But I have no say in that.
- tchaffee 8y ago
  How would I do that when I was handed your laptop? I would assume that's part of the constraints and revert to console.log, like I usually do when it's not my laptop. Good interviews are hard to design. You have to be super careful that you are testing for what you really think you are. I've let people use their own laptop, search for answers, use StackOverflow, and ask me questions. Just like we all do in real life.

deleted 8y ago

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