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Primates living in futurist cages will still be primates. Its time for us to realize that we are moving towards possible futures devoid of real progress. More s

Primates living in futurist cages will still be primates. Its time for us to realize that we are moving towards possible futures devoid of real progress. More sensors, cameras, fasters connections, unlimited entertainment will not help us become happier and prosperous society. We need to discuss real radical ideas and implement them: 1. World without political boundaries, weapons, pollution, carbon emissions. 2. Cheap or free healthcare. 3. Sustainable technologies. 4. Better Education. 5. Heal racial, political, class divides. Where is that future?

jacquesm 8y ago
It's right around the corner. There are just a few minor roadblocks in the way of getting there: money in politics, a couple of hundred years of vested interests and very large corporations that would fight that future tooth and nail.
iooi 8y ago
> 1. World without political boundaries, weapons, pollution, carbon emissions. Oh, please. Without weapons? The first group to get a hold of them will be de-facto rulers -- by force.
- byebyetech 8y ago
  Thats how primates think. Are we not going to progress beyond that logic?
  - TangoTrotFox 8y ago
    We also think that 1+1=2. Of course no social matter is as simple as this, but at the same time that increased complexity can not then be used as an excuse to try to argue that anything is possible - because it most certainly is not. In general, when a social system collapses unless everybody abides it - it's going to collapse. This is not something you can just 'progress beyond.' We are individuals, and always will be. And there is practically nothing that everybody, onto perpetuity, will always and forever agree on.
  - MockObject 8y ago
    By not being primates anymore?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - jcranmer 8y ago
    Force is the means by which we coerce others to commit to an action that they do not wish to commit to. Any world in which the desire or the means to commit force is lacking is not one I would desire to live in.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
JTbane 8y ago
I really struggle to imagine how a world with no weapons could come about.
- rootusrootus 8y ago
  Of course. Because it would require us to change our thinking first, and become something not currently human. As it stands, there is no way a no-weapons world could exist because someone would gain weapons and then take it over.
Kalium 8y ago
You're absolutely right! Those are all wonderful, laudable, humane, compassionate and beautiful goals! We should all work towards them for the good of humanity. Where is that future? Like all such things, it lives exclusively in the realm of the fever-dreams of radicals who focus on dreams. The future is what we build it to be. When discussion and ideology is emphasized above building a future, then the future we get is the one produced by the builders. This is pretty much never the future the dreamers wanted. It's possible that there may be some lessons in there around the power of discussion to bring forth the goals desired. We've had an ongoing discussion about real radical ideas for generations now. Personally, I've about had it with radicals and their pure, beautiful goals untroubled by interactions with nasty, dirty reality. I much prefer to see what can actually be built to discussions of lofty goals.
toephu2 8y ago
Less #1, that future is already here, it's called China.
- asdsa5325 8y ago
  I'm not sure that having a homogeneous population and seizing political power counts as healing racial and political divides...
TangoTrotFox 8y ago
I think some of these ideas are logically impossible. For instance primates without weapons are not somehow suddenly enlightened. Far from it, they're primates waiting to be conquered and controlled by other primates with weapons -- something they probably won't have to wait too long for. Similarly, there is no such thing as free healthcare. Healthcare costs an immense amount of labor, technology, and resources to facilitate. These things have to be paid for by somebody. The same is true, to a lesser degree, of education. Paying for these things socially is not trivial. For instance the NHS in London has been one of the icons of success on this front, yet it's sustainability is now becoming a constant concern as people are living longer, growing fatter, and populations are increasing. On other points, I don't even see an idea. #5 is the obvious one there, but I'm going to avoid that wasp's nest for now. Although even better education is perhaps the same thing. Today there are more people with college degrees than there were with high school degrees at a time that's still in the living memory of some in this nation. What do you mean and what would you expect to be the outcome?

jacquesm 8y ago

It's right around the corner. There are just a few minor roadblocks in the way of getting there: money in politics, a couple of hundred years of vested interests and very large corporations that would fight that future tooth and nail.

iooi 8y ago

> 1. World without political boundaries, weapons, pollution, carbon emissions. Oh, please. Without weapons? The first group to get a hold of them will be de-facto rulers -- by force.

byebyetech 8y ago
Thats how primates think. Are we not going to progress beyond that logic?
- TangoTrotFox 8y ago
  We also think that 1+1=2. Of course no social matter is as simple as this, but at the same time that increased complexity can not then be used as an excuse to try to argue that anything is possible - because it most certainly is not. In general, when a social system collapses unless everybody abides it - it's going to collapse. This is not something you can just 'progress beyond.' We are individuals, and always will be. And there is practically nothing that everybody, onto perpetuity, will always and forever agree on.
- MockObject 8y ago
  By not being primates anymore?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- jcranmer 8y ago
  Force is the means by which we coerce others to commit to an action that they do not wish to commit to. Any world in which the desire or the means to commit force is lacking is not one I would desire to live in.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

JTbane 8y ago

I really struggle to imagine how a world with no weapons could come about.

rootusrootus 8y ago
Of course. Because it would require us to change our thinking first, and become something not currently human. As it stands, there is no way a no-weapons world could exist because someone would gain weapons and then take it over.

Kalium 8y ago

You're absolutely right! Those are all wonderful, laudable, humane, compassionate and beautiful goals! We should all work towards them for the good of humanity. Where is that future? Like all such things, it lives exclusively in the realm of the fever-dreams of radicals who focus on dreams. The future is what we build it to be. When discussion and ideology is emphasized above building a future, then the future we get is the one produced by the builders. This is pretty much never the future the dreamers wanted. It's possible that there may be some lessons in there around the power of discussion to bring forth the goals desired. We've had an ongoing discussion about real radical ideas for generations now. Personally, I've about had it with radicals and their pure, beautiful goals untroubled by interactions with nasty, dirty reality. I much prefer to see what can actually be built to discussions of lofty goals.

toephu2 8y ago

Less #1, that future is already here, it's called China.

asdsa5325 8y ago
I'm not sure that having a homogeneous population and seizing political power counts as healing racial and political divides...

TangoTrotFox 8y ago

I think some of these ideas are logically impossible. For instance primates without weapons are not somehow suddenly enlightened. Far from it, they're primates waiting to be conquered and controlled by other primates with weapons -- something they probably won't have to wait too long for. Similarly, there is no such thing as free healthcare. Healthcare costs an immense amount of labor, technology, and resources to facilitate. These things have to be paid for by somebody. The same is true, to a lesser degree, of education. Paying for these things socially is not trivial. For instance the NHS in London has been one of the icons of success on this front, yet it's sustainability is now becoming a constant concern as people are living longer, growing fatter, and populations are increasing. On other points, I don't even see an idea. #5 is the obvious one there, but I'm going to avoid that wasp's nest for now. Although even better education is perhaps the same thing. Today there are more people with college degrees than there were with high school degrees at a time that's still in the living memory of some in this nation. What do you mean and what would you expect to be the outcome?