4 ms·

What's the sensationalism? Nissan was producing out-of-spec cars due to falsified data, no?

vorpalhex 8y ago
When I read the headline, it seemed to me that Nissan was falsifying data to meet Government/mandated emissions tests and was caught. In reality, Nissan's internal workers were caught falsifying an internal test. That might seem like a small point but it's quite an important difference - the difference between a live malicious data breach and an internal audit failing.
- windows_tips 8y ago
  Nissan's specs are more strict than whatever Government test, so the Government test is not really relevant. The bigger point is that Nissan would be committing fraud on its customers by quoting false specs for the products they are selling.
  - kryogen1c 8y ago
    Its not a bigger point. If it was, they wouldn't have written the headline to deliberately mislead away from that fact.
    - windows_tips 8y ago
      The specifics of the test don't really matter regarding selling a vehicle with fraudulent specs.
      - kryogen1c 8y ago
        Of course it does. The bare minimum to be "safe" is much different than strict internal standards. All rules are not created equally, and breaking different rules should be treated differently. This is why the purposeful misdirection in the headline matters - it is not true or accurate.
        windows_tips 8y ago
        How was the headline not accurate? Because outspoken HN readers assumed this was something to do with government?
        kryogen1c 8y ago
        > How was the headline not accurate? Because it does not provide it's readers with an understanding of what happened, purposefully, to create a more sensationalist headline to generate more clicks and likely more revenue through advertising and subscriptions. > Because outspoken HN readers assumed this was something to do with government? First, this is needlessly insulting. Second, it is common knowledge that emissions standards are government regulations (because they are), so titling an article about a car manufacturer about failing emissions standards points _almost everyone_ in the wrong direction.
        windows_tips 8y ago
        Were you in the newsroom? How do you know the purpose was to "create a more sensationalist headline" (which wasn't sensationalist). >First, this is needlessly insulting. Second, it is common knowledge that emissions standards are government regulations (because they are), so titling an article about a car manufacturer about failing emissions standards points _almost everyone_ in the wrong direction. As insulting as assuming the motivations of an author? I don't think so. Emissions standards are also builder specs. What came first: builder specs, or government specs? >titling an article about a car manufacturer about failing emissions standards points _almost everyone_ in the wrong direction. I disagree. The title was factually accurate. The current title is arguably inaccurate now, as I doubt Nissan even used the word 'internal' in their 'admission'.
  - vorpalhex 8y ago
    One of those is a crime, and one of those is an internal problem. One of those results in extensive fines and jail, one results in finger wagging from the authorities.
    - windows_tips 8y ago
      Either way it is a crime in most jurisdictions. For example, in DC there is fraud in the first degree and fraud in the second degree, as well as false promise to future performance: https://code.dccouncil.us/dc/council/code/sections/22-3221.html https://code.dccouncil.us/dc/council/code/sections/22-3221.h... >(a) Fraud in the first degree. — A person commits the offense of fraud in the first degree if that person engages in a scheme or systematic course of conduct with intent to defraud or to obtain property of another by means of a false or fraudulent pretense, representation, or promise and thereby obtains property of another or causes another to lose property. >(b) Fraud in the second degree. — A person commits the offense of fraud in the second degree if that person engages in a scheme or systematic course of conduct with intent to defraud or to obtain property of another by means of a false or fraudulent pretense, representation, or promise. >(c) False promise as to future performance. — Fraud may be committed by means of false promise as to future performance which the accused does not intend to perform or knows will not be performed. An intent or knowledge shall not be established by the fact alone that one such promise was not performed.
  - brlewis 8y ago
    I just read the article and didn't see where it said the internal standards were quoted to customers. Could you point to that part?
    - windows_tips 8y ago
      I never said it did. Specs are usually pasted to a car's window.
Coincoin 8y ago
It's a lie by omission. The title should have been something like: "Nissan Admits Internal Test Data Was Falsified" Boring, I know.
- DonHopkins 8y ago
  Lie by emission.

When I read the headline, it seemed to me that Nissan was falsifying data to meet Government/mandated emissions tests and was caught. In reality, Nissan's internal workers were caught falsifying an internal test. That might seem like a small point but it's quite an important difference - the difference between a live malicious data breach and an internal audit failing.

windows_tips 8y ago
Nissan's specs are more strict than whatever Government test, so the Government test is not really relevant. The bigger point is that Nissan would be committing fraud on its customers by quoting false specs for the products they are selling.
- kryogen1c 8y ago
  Its not a bigger point. If it was, they wouldn't have written the headline to deliberately mislead away from that fact.
  - windows_tips 8y ago
    The specifics of the test don't really matter regarding selling a vehicle with fraudulent specs.
    - kryogen1c 8y ago
      Of course it does. The bare minimum to be "safe" is much different than strict internal standards. All rules are not created equally, and breaking different rules should be treated differently. This is why the purposeful misdirection in the headline matters - it is not true or accurate.
      - windows_tips 8y ago
        How was the headline not accurate? Because outspoken HN readers assumed this was something to do with government?
        kryogen1c 8y ago
        > How was the headline not accurate? Because it does not provide it's readers with an understanding of what happened, purposefully, to create a more sensationalist headline to generate more clicks and likely more revenue through advertising and subscriptions. > Because outspoken HN readers assumed this was something to do with government? First, this is needlessly insulting. Second, it is common knowledge that emissions standards are government regulations (because they are), so titling an article about a car manufacturer about failing emissions standards points _almost everyone_ in the wrong direction.
        windows_tips 8y ago
        Were you in the newsroom? How do you know the purpose was to "create a more sensationalist headline" (which wasn't sensationalist). >First, this is needlessly insulting. Second, it is common knowledge that emissions standards are government regulations (because they are), so titling an article about a car manufacturer about failing emissions standards points _almost everyone_ in the wrong direction. As insulting as assuming the motivations of an author? I don't think so. Emissions standards are also builder specs. What came first: builder specs, or government specs? >titling an article about a car manufacturer about failing emissions standards points _almost everyone_ in the wrong direction. I disagree. The title was factually accurate. The current title is arguably inaccurate now, as I doubt Nissan even used the word 'internal' in their 'admission'.
- vorpalhex 8y ago
  One of those is a crime, and one of those is an internal problem. One of those results in extensive fines and jail, one results in finger wagging from the authorities.
  - windows_tips 8y ago
    Either way it is a crime in most jurisdictions. For example, in DC there is fraud in the first degree and fraud in the second degree, as well as false promise to future performance: https://code.dccouncil.us/dc/council/code/sections/22-3221.html https://code.dccouncil.us/dc/council/code/sections/22-3221.h... >(a) Fraud in the first degree. — A person commits the offense of fraud in the first degree if that person engages in a scheme or systematic course of conduct with intent to defraud or to obtain property of another by means of a false or fraudulent pretense, representation, or promise and thereby obtains property of another or causes another to lose property. >(b) Fraud in the second degree. — A person commits the offense of fraud in the second degree if that person engages in a scheme or systematic course of conduct with intent to defraud or to obtain property of another by means of a false or fraudulent pretense, representation, or promise. >(c) False promise as to future performance. — Fraud may be committed by means of false promise as to future performance which the accused does not intend to perform or knows will not be performed. An intent or knowledge shall not be established by the fact alone that one such promise was not performed.
- brlewis 8y ago
  I just read the article and didn't see where it said the internal standards were quoted to customers. Could you point to that part?
  - windows_tips 8y ago
    I never said it did. Specs are usually pasted to a car's window.

Coincoin 8y ago

It's a lie by omission. The title should have been something like: "Nissan Admits Internal Test Data Was Falsified" Boring, I know.

DonHopkins 8y ago
Lie by emission.