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DigitalOcean’s quarterly report on developer trends in the cloud

145 points by sandGorgon 8y ago

lightbyte 8y ago
Interesting to see the disconnect between hiring managers and what people say they care about most when considering a job offer (salary). Hiring managers claim there is a shortage of talent and that they do not care about offering a higher salary. Perhaps that talent shortage would mysteriously disappear if they increased their salary offers.
- nathanaldensr 8y ago
  Of course it would. It's just standard industry propaganda to suppress wages and "encourage" imported labor.
- brightball 8y ago
  The number one thing on that list is "limited pool with relevant skills" and not an actual talent shortage. IMO this is more from asking for specific combinations of skills used at a company than anything else. You need these two programming languages, this database, this frontend framework, these devops tools and these other skills would also be beneficial. Generally, you're better off hiring as "if you are competent with one of these and willing to learn the others, you should apply". The broader the stack the more learning curve should be assumed with the hiring process. But it's not in a lot of cases. This also goes hand in hand with the professional development opportunities cited at the beginning of for retention sake.
- nojvek 8y ago
  Computers are a tool of Automation. A seasoned engineer can build amazing things that does the work of many humans. Not only that 10X developers don’t work 10X hard, they are able to solve 10x problems with 1X effort because of their domain experience and approach to problem solving. This kinds of people are hard to find. It’s a terrible business decision not to pay them well because their ROI is multiple times their salaries. They are also very rarely on the market sending out resumes. Mostly because they get jobs mostly via friends of friends and referrals. But I do agree a 100%, we should be getting paid more. If you’re not getting paid enough, look for other opportunities. There are plenty. The tech industry has never been as profitable as it is now. We are in a huge tech boom right now. AppAmaGoogMsft are all poised to be the first trillion dollar corporations.
brightball 8y ago
> Serverless computing is in a much earlier stage of adoption, with nearly half of developers failing to clearly understand what it is. I've seen this called Function as a Service and honestly I think using that term instead of Serverless would go a long way to fixing this issue because 1) it clearly communicates what it is 2) there's not actually such thing as serverless since the functions are still running on servers. It's a made up term that isn't grounded in reality. It's not serverless any more than a Heroku Dyno is Serverless. The first time I heard "serverless" I assumed it was a totally in-browser application.
- styfle 8y ago
  Also it fits in nicely with the other naming conventions such as the following: - Software as a Service (SaaS) - a product such as GitHub or Slack - Infrastructure as a Service (IaaS) - VM or LB as you find in Azure or AWS or Digital Ocean - Platform as a Service (PaaS) - sometimes called Container as a Service as you find in Heroku or Zeit Now - Function as as Service (FaaS) - a single function as you find in Lambda
  - bryanlarsen 8y ago
    Technically CaaS could be IaaS, if you're just using containers as lightweight VM substitutes. Practically CaaS tends to be PaaS, because the hosting service is also providing a platform such as Kubernetes.
  - candiodari 8y ago
    What's the practical difference between FaaS and the old style mod_php, mod_perl, mod_python and friends ?
    - styfle 8y ago
      I think the difference is that you don’t know if the server is running Apache or nginx or IIS because it’s abstracted away. The only interface is the input into the function and the output it returns.
- 8y ago
sandGorgon 8y ago
Here's the interesting learning for me: While Kubernetes was most popular overall, the smallest companies (1-5 employees) use Docker Swarm more often (41 percent use Swarm vs. 31 percent that use Kubernetes). Did not know Swarm was this popular. Even overall Swarm is 35% to K8s 42% However, there is a huge proliferation of hosted K8s services - AWS, GCP, Azure, Digitalocean, tons of others. Nobody seems to be making a hosted Docker Swarm solution though. I wonder why - is it because the market doesnt exist because of the simplicity of Swarm itself ? Would be interesting to find out.
- mromanuk 8y ago
  Sadly Docker is replacing Docker Swarm by Kubernetes
  - sandGorgon 8y ago
    i think they are being very opaque about their plans and this is hurting their credibility. They built the ability the launch k8s clusters through the docker tool. There are almost no tweets or posts about Swarm instead, their blog is full of kubernetes posts (https://blog.docker.com/ https://blog.docker.com/). Even their coolhacks section is about "kubeflow". Top rated session at Dockercon was kubernetes. i really hope they open up more and talk about their future plans and engage with the community.
    - BretFisher 8y ago
      Um, I was a top rated session that was repeated on Friday and was 100% Swarm, and had a full house https://twitter.com/BretFisher/status/1007099831783862272 https://twitter.com/BretFisher/status/1007099831783862272
      - sandGorgon 8y ago
        Bret - this is not me that's making the claims. Take a look here - https://blog.docker.com/2018/06/top-5-rated-sessions-dockercon2018/ https://blog.docker.com/2018/06/top-5-rated-sessions-dockerc... this is what is scaring us. We love Swarm and really respect all the dev efforts... but the corporate K8s bias in unmistakable. These are some of the kubernetes posts over the last 2 days from Docker's twitter account: https://twitter.com/Docker/status/1016340701800431618 https://twitter.com/Docker/status/1016340701800431618 https://twitter.com/Docker/status/1015620961712967681 https://twitter.com/Docker/status/1015620961712967681 https://twitter.com/Docker/status/1015535938678738950 https://twitter.com/Docker/status/1015535938678738950 https://twitter.com/Docker/status/1015475755428597760 https://twitter.com/Docker/status/1015475755428597760 Number of Swarm posts in the same time ? Zero. In fact, I would be hard pressed to find a public tweet about Swarm in a long time. This was the first Docker event in Lahore - https://events.docker.com/events/details/docker-lahore-presents-microservice-architecture-using-docker-and-kubernetes#/ https://events.docker.com/events/details/docker-lahore-prese... Its Kubernetes everywhere.
codingdave 8y ago
I find it interesting (and perhaps predictable) that while only 11% of people had a top consideration when taking a job of "Quality of manager or management", 47% of people cited "Leadership / management was bad" as a reason for leaving a job.
- Kurtz79 8y ago
  I find 11% a surprisingly high percentage, since I would think "Quality of manager or management" is something very hard to assess during a selection process.
- fhood 8y ago
  Pretty hard to gauge the quality of management from the outset though.
  - codingdave 8y ago
    I'm curious why you think so? I normally ask questions about various non-tech topics including conflict resolution, team makeup, strategy, product management priorities, how they mentor junior team members, etc. Those discussions may not be able to tell the difference between a good vs. great leader, but they absolutely will raise red flags from a bad leader.
    - mlthoughts2018 8y ago
      I disagree. Many bad leaders are very expert at sounding like good leaders in a way that is hard to detect in precisely this type of situation. There’s really only two options: seek advice from someone you trust who worked with those leaders, or else you just have to spend a bit of time working for them to find out. You cannot tell from interview questions, unfortunately.
      - duxup 8y ago
        Agreed, bad management usually shows up when there is a problem / stress point. That typically isn't the case in an interview. Granted one time I did pass after an interview after talking to an inexperienced manager who had no clue....so sometimes, you can tell.
abledon 8y ago
Has anyone chosen digital ocean over aws/gcp/aZure when building a scalable setup (for pricing reasons). Eg setting up your own load balancers/ private master slave dB machines / bunch of ansible to organize it all.
- brightball 8y ago
  Fwiw, Digital Ocean keeps adding more and more options on the service front. Several storage options, load balancers w/ Let's Encrypt built in, etc. Keeps growing. IMO the biggest gap for them is lack of a database service like RDS. There are providers of that service that can be deployed to DO...but the cost of those providers is high enough to disincentivize the price appeal of DO in the first place. It would be really interesting to see them partner with a known player like Citus.
  - mlthoughts2018 8y ago
    Lack of GPU droplets is also a big gap, and something that has been promised for several years now.
  - nxie 8y ago
    FWIW, I have found one of the best parts of using Digital Ocean is their fantastic documentation and tutorials. As a relative newbie, I was encouraged to deploy to a PaaS such as Heroku but grew frustrated at the black box aspect of what was going on underneath the hood. The tutorials on DO allowed me to learn and gain an understanding of how servers really work. On your point about database services, I was able to set up Postgres on my droplet with relative ease and it has been serving me well ever since, again all thanks to clear and well made tutorials. I think if I could do it without any prior experience, most other people can too. So IMO, these providers aren't necessary at all.
    - brightball 8y ago
      Oh, I totally agree. That's actually how I learned this stuff. Years ago there was a company called Slicehost that was very similar to what Digital Ocean is now. It had a treasure trove of great documentation and articles. Eventually they were acquired by Rackspace and folded into the Cloud Servers line. Great company though.
mmilano 8y ago
Like the Stack Overflow survey, this one does not distinguish server-side/client-side JavaScript, making it look far more popular than it actually is when considering the data in context of server-side technologies. If 100% of the servers were running PHP, the results would likely be 50% PHP, 50% JavaScript. These survey writers need to modify their question, or add another one specifically requesting server-side tech so JS can be accurately compared with server-side only languages.
- whb07 8y ago
  You’re forgetting the C and C++ for the OS and other binaries. Throw in some python to bring this all together and some Go for a bit of spice. I get your point, but they probably asked “what language do you develop with”.
- mawburn 8y ago
  Do you think a lot of people are running JS in a container for frontend? I wouldn't consider a webserver container a "JS container", even it were mostly serving a React/Vue/Angular app. By the way it's worded, it sounds like the question is specifically talking about NodeJS.
  - java_script 8y ago
    > Do you think a lot of people are running JS in a container for frontend? Hold my beer. --Frontend developers
    - albemuth 8y ago
      If the rest of a web app is running on containers, what's the downside to having the test/build process for the frontend in a container as well?
      - steve_adams_86 8y ago
        I like using containers as a reliable build context. I think it makes tons of sense. Once the container's done building, throw it out, take what it built, and serve it. I'd personally do this separately from the rest of the web app if possible, though. I keep frontends in their own repository.
Blackstone4 8y ago
Interesting to compare the frequently used languages of those using containers to the Stackoverflow Dev survey. - Javascript 57% use vs 71.5% I had always thought JS was high on the Stackoverflow survey because it included people using it on the frontend. Not necessarily the case. - PHP was third at 36% - Golang was fourth above Java
geggam 8y ago
Would have been nice to see what scale these people were running. Also, if they are only polling developers are these actually production loads ? Are the developers now doing operational tasks ?
- ac29 8y ago
  > Would have been nice to see what scale these people were running. 26% were in companies of 5 or less people and 50% in companies of 25 or less. So, this is highly skewed towards smaller scale companies.
peterwwillis 8y ago
I realized recently that Serverless is to developers as credit cards are to college students. Remember when VMs came out, and people were like, great! Now I can constrain the resources of my OS! I can run 10 OSes on one machine! I'll save so much money ! Then we gave individual teams access to create as many VMs as they wanted, and suddenly all the hardware was used up. Now do that, but in the cloud, with unlimited resources.
- DannyB2 8y ago
  But Moooooooom! It's all virtual! There are no hardware resources being used up! (until the bill comes)
- Steltek 8y ago
  In my experience, those VMs were used briefly then left to rot. Consuming a large reserve of resources while doing nothing. Serverless should at least reduce the overhead of orphaned projects out there.
  - peterwwillis 8y ago
    There's a secondary problem: when there are more resources, application development becomes less efficient over time. Even though there will be less infrequently used resources, the applications will use up resources more frequently in an inefficient way. Example: I now need a minimum of 4GB RAM to browse the web, which is insane. 15 years ago my computer had 128MB RAM and I was browsing the web at approximately the same rate.
    - kbar13 8y ago
      if you have the resources use them? 15 years ago your browser had a small fraction of the features a modern browser provides. this argument is tiring.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
devmunchies 8y ago
Does anyone know if the graphs and visuals in the post are hand made or are they using some kind of app with a custom theme?
lakechfoma 8y ago
The pool of respondents are Digital Ocean customers? I'm assuming that would exclude employees of FAANG plus basically all really large "enterprise" businesses. Is that fair to assume? If that is fair, I wonder how biased these results are. If we included FAANG and/or big corporations where tech is key but not a cultural staple (e.g. Walmart) I wonder what the results would look like.
- CM30 8y ago
  It'd also exclude anyone who wanted to host their own site, anyone who stuck with traditional hosting companies/services, anyone who used a service like AWS or Azure to host their site/app, etc. If so, that'd certainly influence the results a lot, and alongside your examples of FAANG employees and large enterprises, make the survey seem a bit too biased to be all that useful.
jmngomes 8y ago
Something that puzzled me: "the majority of hiring managers say they make no distinction between bootcamp vs. college graduates" While the bulk of work at a lot of enterprises (banks, telcos, etc) are CRUD apps with some BPM, I did not expect a (hiring) manager to be unable to make such a simple distinction. Hopefully it could be the case that 'we don't discriminate based on that' is simply the polite/legal thing to say, especially considering that the article goes to say that "48 percent have not filled any positions with a bootcamp graduate"...
- mieseratte 8y ago
  > "the majority of hiring managers say they make no distinction between bootcamp vs. college graduates" Since the industry norm is "You're all equally worthless until proven otherwise" I don't find it all that surprising. They'll take in your resume and toss you into the pipeline / grinder and if make it through the crucible unscathed, well, congrats you'll get a job offer! Being neither a college nor a bootcamp graduate, I've found very few places give a damn what you've got framed on your wall at home. What matters is if you can hack it in the real world. The only time I've been turned away for lack of credential was Booz Allen Hamilton, and they exist to arbitrage you to the government which still seems to care about proper documents. > considering that the article goes to say that "48 percent have not filled any positions with a bootcamp graduate"... Well, that would mean 52% surveyed have hired a bootcamp graduate which is pretty surprising to me, personally, since the camp(s) in my metro seem to produce about two good candidates per cycle.
  - hinkley 8y ago
    Yeah. The worst code camp people have been some of the worst programmers I've ever had to work with. But at the high end? The distinction in success rate is fuzzier. Several of my most promising mentees came out of code camps. It convinces me of something I already 'knew': that good instincts don't come from a college education, they come from life. But a university will weed out a lot of dilettantes...
gaius 8y ago
the majority of hiring managers say they make no distinction between bootcamp vs. college graduates Wow. Can this really be true? Maybe strictly a web dev thing?
aphextron 8y ago
>Ninety-four percent of our respondents self-identified as men, 5 percent as women, and 1 percent as non-binary/other. Seems like this survey was highly self selective, so I'd take the entire thing with a grain of salt. There's no way the industry as a whole is anywhere near 96% male.
- mtberatwork 8y ago
  Also, 76% of respondents were under the age of 35 and 66% reported to be working at a company with < 99 employees.
- clarkmoody 8y ago
  This stood out to me as well. How the survey respondents were selected could have had a huge impact on the demographics.
- jfim 8y ago
  > There's no way the industry as a whole is anywhere near 96% male. What do you think is the correct percentage? 96% seems reasonably close to the anecdotal gender ratio (~1/35 students being female) of undergrads from when I was in university a long time ago.
drenvuk 8y ago
This is a nice breakdown but the most interesting thing I see is keeping the statistics to themselves by posting them to the site as svgs, not images and not text. You can't highlight them for copypasting even though a screenshot will work but you can't right click for saving to an image either. Thanks for the technique.
- quadrature 8y ago
  I'm not sure that was the intention. It's easier to cater to different screen resolutions with a vector format. You can always take a screenshot if you want or link to the article.
  - drenvuk 8y ago
    I did make an assumption that shouldn't have been made, my apologies. I still think this is a cool effect that it can be used for.
Illniyar 8y ago
So it's the result of a survey? That's a bit disappointing. Quarterly report makes me think it'll be extrapolated from DigitalOcean's usage metrics. Surely some of the things, such as containers could be inferred from real usage. Also, unlike stackoverflow, if the respondents were DigitalOcean users I would imagine some things would be considerably skewed - for instance the popularity of "Serverless". I assume that since DigitalOcean doesn't offer serverless products people who use serverless aren't on DigitalOcean.

145 points by sandGorgon 8y ago

Interesting to see the disconnect between hiring managers and what people say they care about most when considering a job offer (salary). Hiring managers claim there is a shortage of talent and that they do not care about offering a higher salary. Perhaps that talent shortage would mysteriously disappear if they increased their salary offers.

nathanaldensr 8y ago
Of course it would. It's just standard industry propaganda to suppress wages and "encourage" imported labor.
brightball 8y ago
The number one thing on that list is "limited pool with relevant skills" and not an actual talent shortage. IMO this is more from asking for specific combinations of skills used at a company than anything else. You need these two programming languages, this database, this frontend framework, these devops tools and these other skills would also be beneficial. Generally, you're better off hiring as "if you are competent with one of these and willing to learn the others, you should apply". The broader the stack the more learning curve should be assumed with the hiring process. But it's not in a lot of cases. This also goes hand in hand with the professional development opportunities cited at the beginning of for retention sake.
nojvek 8y ago
Computers are a tool of Automation. A seasoned engineer can build amazing things that does the work of many humans. Not only that 10X developers don’t work 10X hard, they are able to solve 10x problems with 1X effort because of their domain experience and approach to problem solving. This kinds of people are hard to find. It’s a terrible business decision not to pay them well because their ROI is multiple times their salaries. They are also very rarely on the market sending out resumes. Mostly because they get jobs mostly via friends of friends and referrals. But I do agree a 100%, we should be getting paid more. If you’re not getting paid enough, look for other opportunities. There are plenty. The tech industry has never been as profitable as it is now. We are in a huge tech boom right now. AppAmaGoogMsft are all poised to be the first trillion dollar corporations.

brightball 8y ago

> Serverless computing is in a much earlier stage of adoption, with nearly half of developers failing to clearly understand what it is. I've seen this called Function as a Service and honestly I think using that term instead of Serverless would go a long way to fixing this issue because 1) it clearly communicates what it is 2) there's not actually such thing as serverless since the functions are still running on servers. It's a made up term that isn't grounded in reality. It's not serverless any more than a Heroku Dyno is Serverless. The first time I heard "serverless" I assumed it was a totally in-browser application.

styfle 8y ago
Also it fits in nicely with the other naming conventions such as the following: - Software as a Service (SaaS) - a product such as GitHub or Slack - Infrastructure as a Service (IaaS) - VM or LB as you find in Azure or AWS or Digital Ocean - Platform as a Service (PaaS) - sometimes called Container as a Service as you find in Heroku or Zeit Now - Function as as Service (FaaS) - a single function as you find in Lambda
- bryanlarsen 8y ago
  Technically CaaS could be IaaS, if you're just using containers as lightweight VM substitutes. Practically CaaS tends to be PaaS, because the hosting service is also providing a platform such as Kubernetes.
- candiodari 8y ago
  What's the practical difference between FaaS and the old style mod_php, mod_perl, mod_python and friends ?
  - styfle 8y ago
    I think the difference is that you don’t know if the server is running Apache or nginx or IIS because it’s abstracted away. The only interface is the input into the function and the output it returns.
8y ago

sandGorgon 8y ago

Here's the interesting learning for me: While Kubernetes was most popular overall, the smallest companies (1-5 employees) use Docker Swarm more often (41 percent use Swarm vs. 31 percent that use Kubernetes). Did not know Swarm was this popular. Even overall Swarm is 35% to K8s 42% However, there is a huge proliferation of hosted K8s services - AWS, GCP, Azure, Digitalocean, tons of others. Nobody seems to be making a hosted Docker Swarm solution though. I wonder why - is it because the market doesnt exist because of the simplicity of Swarm itself ? Would be interesting to find out.

mromanuk 8y ago
Sadly Docker is replacing Docker Swarm by Kubernetes
- sandGorgon 8y ago
  i think they are being very opaque about their plans and this is hurting their credibility. They built the ability the launch k8s clusters through the docker tool. There are almost no tweets or posts about Swarm instead, their blog is full of kubernetes posts (https://blog.docker.com/ https://blog.docker.com/). Even their coolhacks section is about "kubeflow". Top rated session at Dockercon was kubernetes. i really hope they open up more and talk about their future plans and engage with the community.
  - BretFisher 8y ago
    Um, I was a top rated session that was repeated on Friday and was 100% Swarm, and had a full house https://twitter.com/BretFisher/status/1007099831783862272 https://twitter.com/BretFisher/status/1007099831783862272
    - sandGorgon 8y ago
      Bret - this is not me that's making the claims. Take a look here - https://blog.docker.com/2018/06/top-5-rated-sessions-dockercon2018/ https://blog.docker.com/2018/06/top-5-rated-sessions-dockerc... this is what is scaring us. We love Swarm and really respect all the dev efforts... but the corporate K8s bias in unmistakable. These are some of the kubernetes posts over the last 2 days from Docker's twitter account: https://twitter.com/Docker/status/1016340701800431618 https://twitter.com/Docker/status/1016340701800431618 https://twitter.com/Docker/status/1015620961712967681 https://twitter.com/Docker/status/1015620961712967681 https://twitter.com/Docker/status/1015535938678738950 https://twitter.com/Docker/status/1015535938678738950 https://twitter.com/Docker/status/1015475755428597760 https://twitter.com/Docker/status/1015475755428597760 Number of Swarm posts in the same time ? Zero. In fact, I would be hard pressed to find a public tweet about Swarm in a long time. This was the first Docker event in Lahore - https://events.docker.com/events/details/docker-lahore-presents-microservice-architecture-using-docker-and-kubernetes#/ https://events.docker.com/events/details/docker-lahore-prese... Its Kubernetes everywhere.

codingdave 8y ago

I find it interesting (and perhaps predictable) that while only 11% of people had a top consideration when taking a job of "Quality of manager or management", 47% of people cited "Leadership / management was bad" as a reason for leaving a job.

Kurtz79 8y ago
I find 11% a surprisingly high percentage, since I would think "Quality of manager or management" is something very hard to assess during a selection process.
fhood 8y ago
Pretty hard to gauge the quality of management from the outset though.
- codingdave 8y ago
  I'm curious why you think so? I normally ask questions about various non-tech topics including conflict resolution, team makeup, strategy, product management priorities, how they mentor junior team members, etc. Those discussions may not be able to tell the difference between a good vs. great leader, but they absolutely will raise red flags from a bad leader.
  - mlthoughts2018 8y ago
    I disagree. Many bad leaders are very expert at sounding like good leaders in a way that is hard to detect in precisely this type of situation. There’s really only two options: seek advice from someone you trust who worked with those leaders, or else you just have to spend a bit of time working for them to find out. You cannot tell from interview questions, unfortunately.
    - duxup 8y ago
      Agreed, bad management usually shows up when there is a problem / stress point. That typically isn't the case in an interview. Granted one time I did pass after an interview after talking to an inexperienced manager who had no clue....so sometimes, you can tell.

abledon 8y ago

Has anyone chosen digital ocean over aws/gcp/aZure when building a scalable setup (for pricing reasons). Eg setting up your own load balancers/ private master slave dB machines / bunch of ansible to organize it all.

brightball 8y ago
Fwiw, Digital Ocean keeps adding more and more options on the service front. Several storage options, load balancers w/ Let's Encrypt built in, etc. Keeps growing. IMO the biggest gap for them is lack of a database service like RDS. There are providers of that service that can be deployed to DO...but the cost of those providers is high enough to disincentivize the price appeal of DO in the first place. It would be really interesting to see them partner with a known player like Citus.
- mlthoughts2018 8y ago
  Lack of GPU droplets is also a big gap, and something that has been promised for several years now.
- nxie 8y ago
  FWIW, I have found one of the best parts of using Digital Ocean is their fantastic documentation and tutorials. As a relative newbie, I was encouraged to deploy to a PaaS such as Heroku but grew frustrated at the black box aspect of what was going on underneath the hood. The tutorials on DO allowed me to learn and gain an understanding of how servers really work. On your point about database services, I was able to set up Postgres on my droplet with relative ease and it has been serving me well ever since, again all thanks to clear and well made tutorials. I think if I could do it without any prior experience, most other people can too. So IMO, these providers aren't necessary at all.
  - brightball 8y ago
    Oh, I totally agree. That's actually how I learned this stuff. Years ago there was a company called Slicehost that was very similar to what Digital Ocean is now. It had a treasure trove of great documentation and articles. Eventually they were acquired by Rackspace and folded into the Cloud Servers line. Great company though.

mmilano 8y ago

Like the Stack Overflow survey, this one does not distinguish server-side/client-side JavaScript, making it look far more popular than it actually is when considering the data in context of server-side technologies. If 100% of the servers were running PHP, the results would likely be 50% PHP, 50% JavaScript. These survey writers need to modify their question, or add another one specifically requesting server-side tech so JS can be accurately compared with server-side only languages.

whb07 8y ago
You’re forgetting the C and C++ for the OS and other binaries. Throw in some python to bring this all together and some Go for a bit of spice. I get your point, but they probably asked “what language do you develop with”.
mawburn 8y ago
Do you think a lot of people are running JS in a container for frontend? I wouldn't consider a webserver container a "JS container", even it were mostly serving a React/Vue/Angular app. By the way it's worded, it sounds like the question is specifically talking about NodeJS.
- java_script 8y ago
  > Do you think a lot of people are running JS in a container for frontend? Hold my beer. --Frontend developers
  - albemuth 8y ago
    If the rest of a web app is running on containers, what's the downside to having the test/build process for the frontend in a container as well?
    - steve_adams_86 8y ago
      I like using containers as a reliable build context. I think it makes tons of sense. Once the container's done building, throw it out, take what it built, and serve it. I'd personally do this separately from the rest of the web app if possible, though. I keep frontends in their own repository.

Blackstone4 8y ago

Interesting to compare the frequently used languages of those using containers to the Stackoverflow Dev survey. - Javascript 57% use vs 71.5% I had always thought JS was high on the Stackoverflow survey because it included people using it on the frontend. Not necessarily the case. - PHP was third at 36% - Golang was fourth above Java

geggam 8y ago

Would have been nice to see what scale these people were running. Also, if they are only polling developers are these actually production loads ? Are the developers now doing operational tasks ?

ac29 8y ago
> Would have been nice to see what scale these people were running. 26% were in companies of 5 or less people and 50% in companies of 25 or less. So, this is highly skewed towards smaller scale companies.

peterwwillis 8y ago

I realized recently that Serverless is to developers as credit cards are to college students. Remember when VMs came out, and people were like, great! Now I can constrain the resources of my OS! I can run 10 OSes on one machine! I'll save so much money ! Then we gave individual teams access to create as many VMs as they wanted, and suddenly all the hardware was used up. Now do that, but in the cloud, with unlimited resources.

DannyB2 8y ago
But Moooooooom! It's all virtual! There are no hardware resources being used up! (until the bill comes)
Steltek 8y ago
In my experience, those VMs were used briefly then left to rot. Consuming a large reserve of resources while doing nothing. Serverless should at least reduce the overhead of orphaned projects out there.
- peterwwillis 8y ago
  There's a secondary problem: when there are more resources, application development becomes less efficient over time. Even though there will be less infrequently used resources, the applications will use up resources more frequently in an inefficient way. Example: I now need a minimum of 4GB RAM to browse the web, which is insane. 15 years ago my computer had 128MB RAM and I was browsing the web at approximately the same rate.
  - kbar13 8y ago
    if you have the resources use them? 15 years ago your browser had a small fraction of the features a modern browser provides. this argument is tiring.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]

devmunchies 8y ago

Does anyone know if the graphs and visuals in the post are hand made or are they using some kind of app with a custom theme?

lakechfoma 8y ago

The pool of respondents are Digital Ocean customers? I'm assuming that would exclude employees of FAANG plus basically all really large "enterprise" businesses. Is that fair to assume? If that is fair, I wonder how biased these results are. If we included FAANG and/or big corporations where tech is key but not a cultural staple (e.g. Walmart) I wonder what the results would look like.

CM30 8y ago
It'd also exclude anyone who wanted to host their own site, anyone who stuck with traditional hosting companies/services, anyone who used a service like AWS or Azure to host their site/app, etc. If so, that'd certainly influence the results a lot, and alongside your examples of FAANG employees and large enterprises, make the survey seem a bit too biased to be all that useful.

jmngomes 8y ago

Something that puzzled me: "the majority of hiring managers say they make no distinction between bootcamp vs. college graduates" While the bulk of work at a lot of enterprises (banks, telcos, etc) are CRUD apps with some BPM, I did not expect a (hiring) manager to be unable to make such a simple distinction. Hopefully it could be the case that 'we don't discriminate based on that' is simply the polite/legal thing to say, especially considering that the article goes to say that "48 percent have not filled any positions with a bootcamp graduate"...

mieseratte 8y ago
> "the majority of hiring managers say they make no distinction between bootcamp vs. college graduates" Since the industry norm is "You're all equally worthless until proven otherwise" I don't find it all that surprising. They'll take in your resume and toss you into the pipeline / grinder and if make it through the crucible unscathed, well, congrats you'll get a job offer! Being neither a college nor a bootcamp graduate, I've found very few places give a damn what you've got framed on your wall at home. What matters is if you can hack it in the real world. The only time I've been turned away for lack of credential was Booz Allen Hamilton, and they exist to arbitrage you to the government which still seems to care about proper documents. > considering that the article goes to say that "48 percent have not filled any positions with a bootcamp graduate"... Well, that would mean 52% surveyed have hired a bootcamp graduate which is pretty surprising to me, personally, since the camp(s) in my metro seem to produce about two good candidates per cycle.
- hinkley 8y ago
  Yeah. The worst code camp people have been some of the worst programmers I've ever had to work with. But at the high end? The distinction in success rate is fuzzier. Several of my most promising mentees came out of code camps. It convinces me of something I already 'knew': that good instincts don't come from a college education, they come from life. But a university will weed out a lot of dilettantes...

gaius 8y ago

the majority of hiring managers say they make no distinction between bootcamp vs. college graduates Wow. Can this really be true? Maybe strictly a web dev thing?

aphextron 8y ago

>Ninety-four percent of our respondents self-identified as men, 5 percent as women, and 1 percent as non-binary/other. Seems like this survey was highly self selective, so I'd take the entire thing with a grain of salt. There's no way the industry as a whole is anywhere near 96% male.

mtberatwork 8y ago
Also, 76% of respondents were under the age of 35 and 66% reported to be working at a company with < 99 employees.
clarkmoody 8y ago
This stood out to me as well. How the survey respondents were selected could have had a huge impact on the demographics.
jfim 8y ago
> There's no way the industry as a whole is anywhere near 96% male. What do you think is the correct percentage? 96% seems reasonably close to the anecdotal gender ratio (~1/35 students being female) of undergrads from when I was in university a long time ago.

drenvuk 8y ago

This is a nice breakdown but the most interesting thing I see is keeping the statistics to themselves by posting them to the site as svgs, not images and not text. You can't highlight them for copypasting even though a screenshot will work but you can't right click for saving to an image either. Thanks for the technique.

quadrature 8y ago
I'm not sure that was the intention. It's easier to cater to different screen resolutions with a vector format. You can always take a screenshot if you want or link to the article.
- drenvuk 8y ago
  I did make an assumption that shouldn't have been made, my apologies. I still think this is a cool effect that it can be used for.

Illniyar 8y ago

So it's the result of a survey? That's a bit disappointing. Quarterly report makes me think it'll be extrapolated from DigitalOcean's usage metrics. Surely some of the things, such as containers could be inferred from real usage. Also, unlike stackoverflow, if the respondents were DigitalOcean users I would imagine some things would be considerably skewed - for instance the popularity of "Serverless". I assume that since DigitalOcean doesn't offer serverless products people who use serverless aren't on DigitalOcean.