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Cognitive science has a term called "Theory of Mind" (ToM), which refers a human cognitive ability that typically emerges in 4 year olds (In fact there is a fam

Cognitive science has a term called "Theory of Mind" (ToM), which refers a human cognitive ability that typically emerges in 4 year olds (In fact there is a famous experiment you should look up and try if you have any kids/nieces/nephews around that age), whereby humans are able to formulate the mind of another entity (the capacity it's working at; information it holds, and doesn't). This is what allows us to, for example, tell a lie. It also allows us to modify our approach in the way we communicate with dogs vs children vs adults, for better communication efficacy (or two different adults where one has high and one has low expertise in some domain, like programming). In my opinion the biggest thing preventing me from using siri is not what it can and cannot do, but that it has been nearly impossible for me to develop a ToM for Siri. And since I simply dont know what siri is capable of, I only use this bot for a very narrow set of tasks. Furthermore one of my ToM priors for siri is that she has a mind that is incapable of learning. This is a big turnoff - bigger than i think we acknowledge; since we are used to interacting with entities that can, even if laboriously. For instance my Australian shepherd might not be able to bring me the newspaper; but if I really wanted her to do that task, I could slowly get her to approximate that behavior, and it would probably be satisfying to see progress in performance. With siri, I simply assume there are things she can do and things she cannot, and it'd be pointless to try and goad her into adding even a trivial task to her functional repertoire.

yonkshi 8y ago
The thought of Siri intentionally telling white lies is pretty funny and a bit creepy - Hey Siri, am I fat? - No Bruce, you are just big boned - Thanks Siri.
- rubatuga 8y ago
  No need for down votes. Yeah it’s interesting how psychology plays a role in us interacting with a voice assistant too. I don’t think Siri will ever be able to judge you on something.
- chrisweekly 8y ago
  tangent: I'd ask anyone claiming to be "big boned" to show me a fat skeleton.
  - freehunter 8y ago
    You can tell men's skeletons from those of women based on how wide the hips are versus the shoulders, and you can tell if a woman had given birth based on her skeleton just looking at the position and width of the hips. Skeletons may not be "big boned" per se, but there are people with wider hips (as one example) who would never be able to be as slim as some supermodels based purely on their bone structure. I agree, though, that the term "big boned" is just a nonsensical platitude to avoid saying someone is overweight.
    - eigenspace 8y ago
      http://www.lmgtfy.com/?t=i&q=x+rays+of+fat+people http://www.lmgtfy.com/?t=i&q=x+rays+of+fat+people
      - freehunter 8y ago
        But those people are "big boned" because they are fat and have been fat for so long that it's changed their bone structure. No one is fat because they're big boned, they're just big boned because they're fat. Also, for what it's worth, LMGTFY is considered by many to be a very rude response.
        spullara 8y ago
        I think you can assume anyone that sends those links knows that they are rude.
      - dang 8y ago
        Please don't do this here.
madeofpalk 8y ago
Is this unique to Siri, or do all voice assistants/computer programs exhibit this?
- subroutine 8y ago
  I think it's all of them. Their abilities are just far more rigid than what we are accustomed to. That mixed with the fact that Siri is a black box that requires query to gain a piece of knowledge. This is not how we are used to doing it. A lot of the information we bake-in to the ToM we have for someone or something is based on observing how they behave and interact with others, or simply by themselves. I see my nephew about twice a year, and even with his rapidly changing capacity I can usually pin down what things he is/isnt capable of in a matter of days. Siri on the other hand is in my pocket almost every minute of every day, and i feel like i know nothing about her. Long story short, I think direct vocal query to gain one piece of rote information is a terribly inefficiant way to develop a ToM of someone/something. If Apple wants to bring siri to the next level they need to figure out a way for us to learn about her abilities passively. The catch however is that I dont want siri bugging me all the time, but maybe sparsely she could give me a popup that says "hey I can do that for you". Particularly if she has 'seen' me do it 100 times and think she could save me a few minutes of effort. That imo would be more game-changing than adding additional siri-api for developers, which will add a bunch more eastereggs that i will never discover.
  - axxl 8y ago
    That is exactly what Shortcuts will help you do (to a degree). Developers can 'donate' (Apple's term for it) the activities that you perform in their applications. "Siri" will attempt to figure out when you perform this action most often using time/geo data and suggest it on the lock screen or search screen. This could also prompt you to add a voice trigger for this action, thereby 'teaching' Siri more.
    - subroutine 8y ago
      After reading your clarification, and reflecting on this a bit more, I think Siri might actually have a chance to impress. What came to me is that I sorta have a per-app ToM for Siri (which i suppose parallels humans being good at some things and bad at others). But what I realized is that... Siri is a cartographer. It seems like she has good domain specific mastery of maps, directions, places, etc. and not to mention, she might even have have an thin (but growing )representation of her own, about my desires and what I know and dont know when it comes to geospatial logistics. In maps Siri really shines, right? I could say something like "Siri, where is the nearest Jack-in-the-Box" and via Maps she say stuff like - There are two Jacks within 3.1 miles, but you might also be interested in knowing there's an In-n-Out and a Shake-Shack nearby as well. In-in-out is currently not as busy as it usually is this time of day, and examining traffic patters I've formulated a shortcut. Should I give you those directions? Then a few min later I might be eating a double-double and say "Hey Siri, how much memory do I have left on my phone?" and she will reply "Sorry I can't help you with that" (the actual response I got to that question just now). Know thyself Siri! Anyway, it's just stuff like which makes it so difficult to pin down what she is capable of. But I'd be satisfied if Siri were to master of a few more apps in a domain general manner. That way I can continue avoiding the rote memorization of commands and simply rely on Siri being a domain general boss at this or that app. Paticularly for other use-cases where (as in maps) it actually makes sense to get and recieve info via voice and not simply interacting with the screen.
graeme 8y ago
Did you read the article? It's saying you'll be able to slowly "train" her by adding shortcuts. Your comment seems to be a general gripe, and it doesn't address the fact that this new change may actually solve your problem. (I agree with you, but I'm excited by this addition because it finally feels like a difference)
- lostcolony 8y ago
  You're just provided with a way to automate a task and have Siri trigger it. It doesn't address the OP's key complaint that there's no clarity on what kinds of tasks Siri can do. For instance, from 9to5mac, these comments - "While Siri and native integration with the operating system is fantastic, this is still very much the Workflow app, with a few extra bells and whistles. It works and function in a similar fashion by creating blocks that trigger one after another" "One example of using Shortcuts with Siri is creating a Shortcut that grabs your current location, creates an ETA home, enables Do Not Disturb, and then sends a text to your roommate that you’re on your way home, and plays some music. All while you’re getting into your car, and preparing to leave. And all you have to say is “Hey Siri, I’m on my way home.” Alternatively, you could also just go into the Shortcuts app and start the request there." All Shortcuts is adding is a way to trigger all of them in one new step. It's like a dumber IFTTT for Siri, basically, one you can't build new behaviors in, you can just script together existing ones. Useful, but it's still hard to tell what can Siri do.
  - graeme 8y ago
    You can search the actions in shortcuts and quickly see what it can do though.
    - lostcolony 8y ago
      Why would I do that? If I want to know what Siri can do, I can just say "Siri, (do the thing)" and find out. That's -way- easier than scrolling through a list (and more accurate, to boot; just because she can do it, if I can't figure out an acceptable magical incantation, she can't, for all intents and purposes). Just looking over the list still doesn't address the OP's point. Maybe if I memorized it, in the way that if I had an exhaustive list of everything a 4 year old child can do that I memorized I'd be able to 'intuit' what they could do, but why would I do that? That's just it; the whole 'theory of mind' is basically the idea that we can intuit what someone else can do, think, etc, without such a list. I'm able to limit my own own mind to have the same limits as someone else. That is, I can imagine what someone else is likely thinking given a subset (or even theoretical superset! I.e., "They know if there is money in this account. If there is, they are likely to do X. If there isn't, they are likely to do Y") of information that I have. I can determine what a child will be able to do based on exposure of other things they can do. None of that applies to Siri. I can't infer what she has access to (both in terms of data and functionality). I can't use capabilities of one thing to infer capabilities in another. She can order me an Uber; can she order me a pizza? Can she order me a highly detailed expandable oak table from a boutique vendor? I can infer what a real PA is likely to be able to do (even if I don't know the specifics of how), but I can't do that with Siri. It's a black box. Giving me an exhaustive list of all the things doesn't change that; it's now a black box with a manual. Yes, okay, maybe if I memorize the manual I can determine what she can do, but the point the op is making is that for a real PA I can infer what capabilities they have without memorizing a manual. Until Siri can as well, she's not a replacement, feels gimmicky, and has real barriers to adoption to overcome.
naeem 8y ago
This is an excellent comment.
acranox 8y ago
The lack of learning is what also bugs me about all the new tech. It's being used for targeted ads, and stuff like that, but not for trivial tasks that would actually improve my interaction with the interface. A few things that come to mind, are that I always listen to music as full albums, and yet the UIs still always try to get my to shuffle various playlists. Every day around the same time I text my partner nearly the same message, "I'm leaving work." and yet autocomplete still suggests other phrases. If I click the share button, I then go through 6 steps to share the article via a text message with the same person. Imagine if clicking share offered one click of "Would you like to send this as a text message to Jane?" I'm not a fan of the current AI craze, and happily like my devices somewhat stupid, but if they're going to try and be smart, at least learn my predictable behaviors, and offer me shortcuts on those. It's unclear to me what these new shortcuts really offer, but I'll be interested to try them. However I have a hunch what I want is actually even simpler than these will provide.
- reaperducer 8y ago
  FWIW, I switched to a new iPhone a few weeks ago, and it has learned at every workday at a particular time when I open a Messages conversation with a particular person and type "Good," it correctly auto-suggests the rest of the phrase that I sent at that time. I have noticed, however, that it wont always make suggestions for similar repeated texting events. I think it has to do with limited space in the iOS auto-complete bar, because once I get past the first couple of words it fills in the rest. If you're using iOS, is it possible that your usual phrase is too long to fit in auto-complete? As for the other things you suggest, it appears this is the direction Apple is headed, based on the most recent WWDC keynote.
- Infernal 8y ago
  So I currently use a combination of Launch Center Pro and Workflow (the developer of which was purchased by Apple last year, and appears to be the source of what has now become Siri Shortcuts) to do what you're describing. I have a Workflow that when run, uses Maps to estimate the drive time between wherever I am and my house, pads the estimate by 5 minutes, then adds that to the current time to get an ETA, formats it into a text message and sends the ETA to my wife. In Launch Center Pro, I have a geo-fenced shortcut that presents a notification to run my workflow whenever it sees that I have left the area around my office building. The UX is, halfway between my office building and my car, I get a notification from LCP - I tap the notification, Workflow thinks for a minute, and presents me with a text message to my wife and I tap "send". As nice as this is already, I believe Siri Shortcuts may improve it in several ways: 1) Currently, apps are not allowed to send messages without explicit user interaction, so Workflow can't actually text my wife, it just presents me with an imessage screen and an already-written message that I must tap "send" on 2) Workflow does not support geofenced or time-based running of workflows, hence why I need LCP to launch my Workflow based on a geofence. If Siri Shortcuts supports this, then I won't have to rely on LCP anymore. 3) There is no way (that I'm aware of) to trigger my workflow automatically, I must tap a notification and unlock my phone, or run an app and select the workflow within it. An improvement would be a programmable Siri Shortcut ("Hey Siri, let my wife know my ETA"), and even better would be automatic running of workflows based on defined conditions, so my workflow would run and send a message automatically when crossing the geofence without me even needing to be aware of it (besides maybe a notification that lets me know the workflow has run).
otabdeveloper1 8y ago
Your post implies that kids under 4 years old can't lie. This is, of course, patently untrue. (Mine told lies at 12 months.)
- subroutine 8y ago
  I should have qualified that: "lie with high-rates of success". To clarify, at 1-years-old your infant could not formulate a high quality representation of your 'mind'. That is he/she couldnt fully appreciates that information held in your brain was different than the info available to themselves (the union/intersection/xor of info), nor did they have a strong intuition regarding how vastly different your two mental abilities were, without a theory of how minds work. The classic experiment I mentioned above involves a child and two adults in a kitchen. One of the adults wants a piece of candy (or something - going from memory here), but the other adult says they cannot have it yet, and puts it in a cabinet. All 3 witness where the candy is placed. At which point the one who wants the candy leaves, but on their way out the door says "when i get back I want the candy". So then it is just one adult and the kid in the room. The adult asks the kid to move the candy to a different location in the kitchen. The kid does this and then sits back down. After a few minutes the adult says to the kid something like - "That other adult who wants the candy will be back in a few minutes. Where do you think they will look first when they get back?" - without fail 3 year olds will point to the cabinet where the candy is currently located, whereas 5 year olds will always point to the cabinet they adult who left saw it last. Something happens in brain development during age-4 that gives us the capacity to understand that different minds hold different information based on their own experiences. This task has been repeated dozens of different ways, including simply having an adult standing in a different location in a room as 3,4,5 year olds, where the adult's view of a wall (of pictures) is clearly obscured by some screen. Then they ask the kids stuff like... how many pictures of teddybears will that adult say there is on that wall? Again 3 year olds report what they themselves see, while 5 year olds perform like adults would on this task.
  - ballenf 8y ago
    Thanks for the detailed explanation. As a parent, I can see what you imply with regard to different kinds of lying. A very young child will lie to avoid an undesirable result in a very basic way: "Did you throw your food on the floor?" (with food plainly visible to all). Child nods emphatic "no". While older child only lies when they think that I don't have enough information to know the truth for sure.
JacobJans 8y ago
Your comment makes me think of an interesting idea. One of the problems with Siri/Google/Alexa is they try to be everything and do everything at once. What if they split the expertise/domains they're capable of into different names? For example, there could be a "mind" that is really good at playing music. So you'd say, "Hey MusicBot, pause the song." Or, you could say "Hey, InfoBot, what's the weather?" Over time, you could get to know more "minds" that live in the cloud, and develop a theory of mind for each of them.
- throw7 8y ago
  I just saw advertised that google home/mini has at least one named bot for special domains... I believe it was Toby? who is a "chef".
fredley 8y ago
The famous experiment is the "Sally Anne task", which goes like this: The child is in a room with Sally and Anne. Sally has a basket and Anne has a box. Sally puts the marble in her basket and leaves the room. While she's out, Anne steals the marble, and puts it in her box. Sally then comes back into the room. You ask the child "Where will Sally look for her marble?". This tests whether or not they can fathom the world through Sally's eye, and see that her view of it will be different from their own. The experiment was formulated by Simon Baron-Cohen.
LeifCarrotson 8y ago
> For instance my Australian shepherd might not be able to bring me the newspaper; but if I really wanted her to do that task, I could slowly get her to approximate that behavior, and it would probably be satisfying to see progress in performance. Given she's an Australian shepherd, it would probably be only a bit startling to subsequently come home and see her analyzing the finance section of the paper. :) This is, I think, one of the failings of human ToM. We tend to underestimate entities which are different from us. The differences are not only of capacity and of information. They are differences of worldview, values, and biases that are very hard to capture, even between adult humans of different cultures. It's easy to imagine people as a less intelligent and less experienced versions of yourself, but that is not an accurate theory of their mind. The same differences, only more so, are present between humans and dogs or humans and Siri. Given that the most empathetic and social people (with, I assume, a better theory of mind) are generally not found in technical roles, I wonder if they might find it easier to make that stretch and effectively use Siri or Alexa?
- subroutine 8y ago
  Ha yes, im saying it'd be difficult to get her to bring the paper because she is already so busy day trading dogecoin. I hear what you are saying but given we are the designers of the siri 'mind', we are in a unique position to make it more human-centric. It will be easier in the long run to adapt siri to humans than the other way around.

yonkshi 8y ago

The thought of Siri intentionally telling white lies is pretty funny and a bit creepy - Hey Siri, am I fat? - No Bruce, you are just big boned - Thanks Siri.

rubatuga 8y ago
No need for down votes. Yeah it’s interesting how psychology plays a role in us interacting with a voice assistant too. I don’t think Siri will ever be able to judge you on something.
chrisweekly 8y ago
tangent: I'd ask anyone claiming to be "big boned" to show me a fat skeleton.
- freehunter 8y ago
  You can tell men's skeletons from those of women based on how wide the hips are versus the shoulders, and you can tell if a woman had given birth based on her skeleton just looking at the position and width of the hips. Skeletons may not be "big boned" per se, but there are people with wider hips (as one example) who would never be able to be as slim as some supermodels based purely on their bone structure. I agree, though, that the term "big boned" is just a nonsensical platitude to avoid saying someone is overweight.
  - eigenspace 8y ago
    http://www.lmgtfy.com/?t=i&q=x+rays+of+fat+people http://www.lmgtfy.com/?t=i&q=x+rays+of+fat+people
    - freehunter 8y ago
      But those people are "big boned" because they are fat and have been fat for so long that it's changed their bone structure. No one is fat because they're big boned, they're just big boned because they're fat. Also, for what it's worth, LMGTFY is considered by many to be a very rude response.
      - spullara 8y ago
        I think you can assume anyone that sends those links knows that they are rude.
    - dang 8y ago
      Please don't do this here.

madeofpalk 8y ago

Is this unique to Siri, or do all voice assistants/computer programs exhibit this?

subroutine 8y ago
I think it's all of them. Their abilities are just far more rigid than what we are accustomed to. That mixed with the fact that Siri is a black box that requires query to gain a piece of knowledge. This is not how we are used to doing it. A lot of the information we bake-in to the ToM we have for someone or something is based on observing how they behave and interact with others, or simply by themselves. I see my nephew about twice a year, and even with his rapidly changing capacity I can usually pin down what things he is/isnt capable of in a matter of days. Siri on the other hand is in my pocket almost every minute of every day, and i feel like i know nothing about her. Long story short, I think direct vocal query to gain one piece of rote information is a terribly inefficiant way to develop a ToM of someone/something. If Apple wants to bring siri to the next level they need to figure out a way for us to learn about her abilities passively. The catch however is that I dont want siri bugging me all the time, but maybe sparsely she could give me a popup that says "hey I can do that for you". Particularly if she has 'seen' me do it 100 times and think she could save me a few minutes of effort. That imo would be more game-changing than adding additional siri-api for developers, which will add a bunch more eastereggs that i will never discover.
- axxl 8y ago
  That is exactly what Shortcuts will help you do (to a degree). Developers can 'donate' (Apple's term for it) the activities that you perform in their applications. "Siri" will attempt to figure out when you perform this action most often using time/geo data and suggest it on the lock screen or search screen. This could also prompt you to add a voice trigger for this action, thereby 'teaching' Siri more.
  - subroutine 8y ago
    After reading your clarification, and reflecting on this a bit more, I think Siri might actually have a chance to impress. What came to me is that I sorta have a per-app ToM for Siri (which i suppose parallels humans being good at some things and bad at others). But what I realized is that... Siri is a cartographer. It seems like she has good domain specific mastery of maps, directions, places, etc. and not to mention, she might even have have an thin (but growing )representation of her own, about my desires and what I know and dont know when it comes to geospatial logistics. In maps Siri really shines, right? I could say something like "Siri, where is the nearest Jack-in-the-Box" and via Maps she say stuff like - There are two Jacks within 3.1 miles, but you might also be interested in knowing there's an In-n-Out and a Shake-Shack nearby as well. In-in-out is currently not as busy as it usually is this time of day, and examining traffic patters I've formulated a shortcut. Should I give you those directions? Then a few min later I might be eating a double-double and say "Hey Siri, how much memory do I have left on my phone?" and she will reply "Sorry I can't help you with that" (the actual response I got to that question just now). Know thyself Siri! Anyway, it's just stuff like which makes it so difficult to pin down what she is capable of. But I'd be satisfied if Siri were to master of a few more apps in a domain general manner. That way I can continue avoiding the rote memorization of commands and simply rely on Siri being a domain general boss at this or that app. Paticularly for other use-cases where (as in maps) it actually makes sense to get and recieve info via voice and not simply interacting with the screen.

graeme 8y ago

Did you read the article? It's saying you'll be able to slowly "train" her by adding shortcuts. Your comment seems to be a general gripe, and it doesn't address the fact that this new change may actually solve your problem. (I agree with you, but I'm excited by this addition because it finally feels like a difference)

lostcolony 8y ago
You're just provided with a way to automate a task and have Siri trigger it. It doesn't address the OP's key complaint that there's no clarity on what kinds of tasks Siri can do. For instance, from 9to5mac, these comments - "While Siri and native integration with the operating system is fantastic, this is still very much the Workflow app, with a few extra bells and whistles. It works and function in a similar fashion by creating blocks that trigger one after another" "One example of using Shortcuts with Siri is creating a Shortcut that grabs your current location, creates an ETA home, enables Do Not Disturb, and then sends a text to your roommate that you’re on your way home, and plays some music. All while you’re getting into your car, and preparing to leave. And all you have to say is “Hey Siri, I’m on my way home.” Alternatively, you could also just go into the Shortcuts app and start the request there." All Shortcuts is adding is a way to trigger all of them in one new step. It's like a dumber IFTTT for Siri, basically, one you can't build new behaviors in, you can just script together existing ones. Useful, but it's still hard to tell what can Siri do.
- graeme 8y ago
  You can search the actions in shortcuts and quickly see what it can do though.
  - lostcolony 8y ago
    Why would I do that? If I want to know what Siri can do, I can just say "Siri, (do the thing)" and find out. That's -way- easier than scrolling through a list (and more accurate, to boot; just because she can do it, if I can't figure out an acceptable magical incantation, she can't, for all intents and purposes). Just looking over the list still doesn't address the OP's point. Maybe if I memorized it, in the way that if I had an exhaustive list of everything a 4 year old child can do that I memorized I'd be able to 'intuit' what they could do, but why would I do that? That's just it; the whole 'theory of mind' is basically the idea that we can intuit what someone else can do, think, etc, without such a list. I'm able to limit my own own mind to have the same limits as someone else. That is, I can imagine what someone else is likely thinking given a subset (or even theoretical superset! I.e., "They know if there is money in this account. If there is, they are likely to do X. If there isn't, they are likely to do Y") of information that I have. I can determine what a child will be able to do based on exposure of other things they can do. None of that applies to Siri. I can't infer what she has access to (both in terms of data and functionality). I can't use capabilities of one thing to infer capabilities in another. She can order me an Uber; can she order me a pizza? Can she order me a highly detailed expandable oak table from a boutique vendor? I can infer what a real PA is likely to be able to do (even if I don't know the specifics of how), but I can't do that with Siri. It's a black box. Giving me an exhaustive list of all the things doesn't change that; it's now a black box with a manual. Yes, okay, maybe if I memorize the manual I can determine what she can do, but the point the op is making is that for a real PA I can infer what capabilities they have without memorizing a manual. Until Siri can as well, she's not a replacement, feels gimmicky, and has real barriers to adoption to overcome.

naeem 8y ago

This is an excellent comment.

acranox 8y ago

The lack of learning is what also bugs me about all the new tech. It's being used for targeted ads, and stuff like that, but not for trivial tasks that would actually improve my interaction with the interface. A few things that come to mind, are that I always listen to music as full albums, and yet the UIs still always try to get my to shuffle various playlists. Every day around the same time I text my partner nearly the same message, "I'm leaving work." and yet autocomplete still suggests other phrases. If I click the share button, I then go through 6 steps to share the article via a text message with the same person. Imagine if clicking share offered one click of "Would you like to send this as a text message to Jane?" I'm not a fan of the current AI craze, and happily like my devices somewhat stupid, but if they're going to try and be smart, at least learn my predictable behaviors, and offer me shortcuts on those. It's unclear to me what these new shortcuts really offer, but I'll be interested to try them. However I have a hunch what I want is actually even simpler than these will provide.

reaperducer 8y ago
FWIW, I switched to a new iPhone a few weeks ago, and it has learned at every workday at a particular time when I open a Messages conversation with a particular person and type "Good," it correctly auto-suggests the rest of the phrase that I sent at that time. I have noticed, however, that it wont always make suggestions for similar repeated texting events. I think it has to do with limited space in the iOS auto-complete bar, because once I get past the first couple of words it fills in the rest. If you're using iOS, is it possible that your usual phrase is too long to fit in auto-complete? As for the other things you suggest, it appears this is the direction Apple is headed, based on the most recent WWDC keynote.
Infernal 8y ago
So I currently use a combination of Launch Center Pro and Workflow (the developer of which was purchased by Apple last year, and appears to be the source of what has now become Siri Shortcuts) to do what you're describing. I have a Workflow that when run, uses Maps to estimate the drive time between wherever I am and my house, pads the estimate by 5 minutes, then adds that to the current time to get an ETA, formats it into a text message and sends the ETA to my wife. In Launch Center Pro, I have a geo-fenced shortcut that presents a notification to run my workflow whenever it sees that I have left the area around my office building. The UX is, halfway between my office building and my car, I get a notification from LCP - I tap the notification, Workflow thinks for a minute, and presents me with a text message to my wife and I tap "send". As nice as this is already, I believe Siri Shortcuts may improve it in several ways: 1) Currently, apps are not allowed to send messages without explicit user interaction, so Workflow can't actually text my wife, it just presents me with an imessage screen and an already-written message that I must tap "send" on 2) Workflow does not support geofenced or time-based running of workflows, hence why I need LCP to launch my Workflow based on a geofence. If Siri Shortcuts supports this, then I won't have to rely on LCP anymore. 3) There is no way (that I'm aware of) to trigger my workflow automatically, I must tap a notification and unlock my phone, or run an app and select the workflow within it. An improvement would be a programmable Siri Shortcut ("Hey Siri, let my wife know my ETA"), and even better would be automatic running of workflows based on defined conditions, so my workflow would run and send a message automatically when crossing the geofence without me even needing to be aware of it (besides maybe a notification that lets me know the workflow has run).

otabdeveloper1 8y ago

Your post implies that kids under 4 years old can't lie. This is, of course, patently untrue. (Mine told lies at 12 months.)

subroutine 8y ago
I should have qualified that: "lie with high-rates of success". To clarify, at 1-years-old your infant could not formulate a high quality representation of your 'mind'. That is he/she couldnt fully appreciates that information held in your brain was different than the info available to themselves (the union/intersection/xor of info), nor did they have a strong intuition regarding how vastly different your two mental abilities were, without a theory of how minds work. The classic experiment I mentioned above involves a child and two adults in a kitchen. One of the adults wants a piece of candy (or something - going from memory here), but the other adult says they cannot have it yet, and puts it in a cabinet. All 3 witness where the candy is placed. At which point the one who wants the candy leaves, but on their way out the door says "when i get back I want the candy". So then it is just one adult and the kid in the room. The adult asks the kid to move the candy to a different location in the kitchen. The kid does this and then sits back down. After a few minutes the adult says to the kid something like - "That other adult who wants the candy will be back in a few minutes. Where do you think they will look first when they get back?" - without fail 3 year olds will point to the cabinet where the candy is currently located, whereas 5 year olds will always point to the cabinet they adult who left saw it last. Something happens in brain development during age-4 that gives us the capacity to understand that different minds hold different information based on their own experiences. This task has been repeated dozens of different ways, including simply having an adult standing in a different location in a room as 3,4,5 year olds, where the adult's view of a wall (of pictures) is clearly obscured by some screen. Then they ask the kids stuff like... how many pictures of teddybears will that adult say there is on that wall? Again 3 year olds report what they themselves see, while 5 year olds perform like adults would on this task.
- ballenf 8y ago
  Thanks for the detailed explanation. As a parent, I can see what you imply with regard to different kinds of lying. A very young child will lie to avoid an undesirable result in a very basic way: "Did you throw your food on the floor?" (with food plainly visible to all). Child nods emphatic "no". While older child only lies when they think that I don't have enough information to know the truth for sure.

JacobJans 8y ago

Your comment makes me think of an interesting idea. One of the problems with Siri/Google/Alexa is they try to be everything and do everything at once. What if they split the expertise/domains they're capable of into different names? For example, there could be a "mind" that is really good at playing music. So you'd say, "Hey MusicBot, pause the song." Or, you could say "Hey, InfoBot, what's the weather?" Over time, you could get to know more "minds" that live in the cloud, and develop a theory of mind for each of them.

throw7 8y ago
I just saw advertised that google home/mini has at least one named bot for special domains... I believe it was Toby? who is a "chef".

fredley 8y ago

The famous experiment is the "Sally Anne task", which goes like this: The child is in a room with Sally and Anne. Sally has a basket and Anne has a box. Sally puts the marble in her basket and leaves the room. While she's out, Anne steals the marble, and puts it in her box. Sally then comes back into the room. You ask the child "Where will Sally look for her marble?". This tests whether or not they can fathom the world through Sally's eye, and see that her view of it will be different from their own. The experiment was formulated by Simon Baron-Cohen.

LeifCarrotson 8y ago

> For instance my Australian shepherd might not be able to bring me the newspaper; but if I really wanted her to do that task, I could slowly get her to approximate that behavior, and it would probably be satisfying to see progress in performance. Given she's an Australian shepherd, it would probably be only a bit startling to subsequently come home and see her analyzing the finance section of the paper. :) This is, I think, one of the failings of human ToM. We tend to underestimate entities which are different from us. The differences are not only of capacity and of information. They are differences of worldview, values, and biases that are very hard to capture, even between adult humans of different cultures. It's easy to imagine people as a less intelligent and less experienced versions of yourself, but that is not an accurate theory of their mind. The same differences, only more so, are present between humans and dogs or humans and Siri. Given that the most empathetic and social people (with, I assume, a better theory of mind) are generally not found in technical roles, I wonder if they might find it easier to make that stretch and effectively use Siri or Alexa?

subroutine 8y ago
Ha yes, im saying it'd be difficult to get her to bring the paper because she is already so busy day trading dogecoin. I hear what you are saying but given we are the designers of the siri 'mind', we are in a unique position to make it more human-centric. It will be easier in the long run to adapt siri to humans than the other way around.