48 ms·

Web apps. You don't know how to create web apps. An actual website (meaning text, images and little more) doesn't really need all the fancy frameworks OP's tal

by klez 8y ago

Web apps. You don't know how to create web apps. An actual website (meaning text, images and little more) doesn't really need all the fancy frameworks OP's talking about. The sooner we re-learn this, the better.

retox 8y ago
Im getting a lot of mileage out of Express/Polka, postgres, handlebars and vanilla js. Redis is good for rate limiting and session store if necessary. Yes it's not one package but I don't need most of the stuff the big bois are offering.
de_watcher 8y ago
Of course web apps are hard. They run in this weird VM that wasn't even designed for the applications. The popularity caused by the ease of deployment made us brute-force the solutions for the actual development tools, and they keep searching for themselves by sprawling frameworks and libraries for the same thing all the time.
- kowdermeister 8y ago
  > They run in this weird VM that wasn't even designed for the applications. I keep reading this and it was probably true 10 years ago, but JS has evolved quite a bit since. Browser differences are now marginal (yes I've seen the outline hack) and now these funny little VM-s are designed for the applications.
moviuro 8y ago
> An actual website (meaning text, images and little more) doesn't really need all the fancy frameworks OP's talking about. Sure, but you still need: - a server/reverse proxy (h2o, apache, nginx, httpd, etc.), in which you correctly set tons of things, such as headers [0], https (acme.sh? or acme-client?) - haproxy for IPv4/IPv6 if you want to live in the future, but still be available to people living in the past century [1] Default versions and settings are still broken (SSL still enabled in 2018, etc.)... Mozilla does help though by publishing some sane templates [2]. In the end, it's not quite as complex as webapps, but still very far from trivial. [0] https://securityheaders.com/?q=try.popho.be&followRedirects=on https://securityheaders.com/?q=try.popho.be&followRedirects=... for my own static blog, https://securityheaders.com/?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hellobank.fr%2F&followRedirects=on https://securityheaders.com/?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hellobank.f... & https://securityheaders.com/?q=particuliers.secure.lcl.fr&followRedirects=on https://securityheaders.com/?q=particuliers.secure.lcl.fr&fo... for French banks... [1] https://try.popho.be/https.html https://try.popho.be/https.html [2] https://mozilla.github.io/server-side-tls/ssl-config-generator/ https://mozilla.github.io/server-side-tls/ssl-config-generat... and https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security
- klez 8y ago
  True, but you can still get a ton of mileage from a simple managed web hosting solution and (if you feel fancy) cloudfront. My point is that this whole post reeks a bit of YAGNI. Or, at least, that we're not talking about "simple websites". If it's the latter, of course, it's a whole different story. But we should call websites "websites" and web applications "web applications". This would also avoid those "the web sucks" arguments that make comments think an article is thinking about the web as "a way to exchange information" instead of "a platform to distribute system-agnostic applications".

by klez 8y ago

retox 8y ago

Im getting a lot of mileage out of Express/Polka, postgres, handlebars and vanilla js. Redis is good for rate limiting and session store if necessary. Yes it's not one package but I don't need most of the stuff the big bois are offering.

de_watcher 8y ago

Of course web apps are hard. They run in this weird VM that wasn't even designed for the applications. The popularity caused by the ease of deployment made us brute-force the solutions for the actual development tools, and they keep searching for themselves by sprawling frameworks and libraries for the same thing all the time.

kowdermeister 8y ago
> They run in this weird VM that wasn't even designed for the applications. I keep reading this and it was probably true 10 years ago, but JS has evolved quite a bit since. Browser differences are now marginal (yes I've seen the outline hack) and now these funny little VM-s are designed for the applications.

moviuro 8y ago

> An actual website (meaning text, images and little more) doesn't really need all the fancy frameworks OP's talking about. Sure, but you still need: - a server/reverse proxy (h2o, apache, nginx, httpd, etc.), in which you correctly set tons of things, such as headers [0], https (acme.sh? or acme-client?) - haproxy for IPv4/IPv6 if you want to live in the future, but still be available to people living in the past century [1] Default versions and settings are still broken (SSL still enabled in 2018, etc.)... Mozilla does help though by publishing some sane templates [2]. In the end, it's not quite as complex as webapps, but still very far from trivial. [0] https://securityheaders.com/?q=try.popho.be&followRedirects=on https://securityheaders.com/?q=try.popho.be&followRedirects=... for my own static blog, https://securityheaders.com/?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hellobank.fr%2F&followRedirects=on https://securityheaders.com/?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hellobank.f... & https://securityheaders.com/?q=particuliers.secure.lcl.fr&followRedirects=on https://securityheaders.com/?q=particuliers.secure.lcl.fr&fo... for French banks... [1] https://try.popho.be/https.html https://try.popho.be/https.html [2] https://mozilla.github.io/server-side-tls/ssl-config-generator/ https://mozilla.github.io/server-side-tls/ssl-config-generat... and https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security

klez 8y ago
True, but you can still get a ton of mileage from a simple managed web hosting solution and (if you feel fancy) cloudfront. My point is that this whole post reeks a bit of YAGNI. Or, at least, that we're not talking about "simple websites". If it's the latter, of course, it's a whole different story. But we should call websites "websites" and web applications "web applications". This would also avoid those "the web sucks" arguments that make comments think an article is thinking about the web as "a way to exchange information" instead of "a platform to distribute system-agnostic applications".