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> On Oct. 1, 2015, Visa and MasterCard put in force new rules that can penalize merchants who do not yet have chip-enabled terminals. Under the new rules, merch

> On Oct. 1, 2015, Visa and MasterCard put in force new rules that can penalize merchants who do not yet have chip-enabled terminals. Under the new rules, merchants that don’t have the technology to accept chip cards will assume full liability for the cost of fraud from purchases in which the customer presented a chip-enabled card. > But those rules don’t apply to fuel stations in the United States until October 2017, and a great many stations won’t meet that deadline, said Verifone’s Turner. I'm not from the US though I visit often. It's the only place I ever use the magnetic stripe on my card. I tend to be able to use the chip when buying groceries, but in most restaurants & coffee shops its mag stripe all the way. Realistically is that going to change any time soon?

Bluestrike2 8y ago
Eventually. But it's still a slow process.
adrr 8y ago
Chips require certification to make sure merchant is sending the right data over the network. This is why you see chip readers but the merchant only supports swipe. Visa and other card brands are trying to clean up all the screwed up data on network, really stupid things like a merchant bought a used card reader but never bothered to change the old merchant info on it.
- StudentStuff 8y ago
  Pinpads and terminals have to be re-injected with debit keys for the appropriate bank and reconfigured with the correct software load & merchant account before you can use hardware that was used by another merchant. If you don't do that, the other merchant is very likely to receive the funds you charge your clients cards for, short of their merchant account being closed. The reason EMV isn't enabled at most merchants is its both more expensive than standard swipe transactions, and massively slower unless your Costco & Kroger (who both just got quick chip). 30 seconds of waiting for a card to process, combined with EMV chip read errors due to partial insertion or failing/oxidized contacts (especially common on pinpads that aren't mounted to the table, most often the Pax S300 cause those customers are cheap AF) is a recipe for long lines. Grocers are leading the EMV transition as they are the most powerful block of merchants when it comes to beating down interchange rates and processing fees, with Walmart repeatedly suing Mastercard, and other large retailers doing the same to the other card vendors. For that small segment, they've been able to beat down Visa & Mastercard on the per kilobyte data transmission fee and on the other BS fees that make processing EMV cards more expensive than magstripe.
  - ACow_Adonis 8y ago
    An honest question: why would the cost of chip processing be prohibitive and the speed of chip processing be 30 seconds of waiting in the US, when its essentially rolled out en-mass in AUS and neither of those things (appear) to applicable, or at the very least they haven't stopped mass adoption? It certainly doesn't take 30 seconds of waiting to tap and pay here...
    - lb1lf 8y ago
      Same goes for Norway; swiping is just a fallback measure if the chip is unreadable; you then have to sign at the register and your signature is supposed to be compared to the one on your card. Transaction (be it chip or swipe) is approved in a couple of seconds. The last couple of years, we've had cards fitted with NFC, too - so if the terminal is compatible, no need to type the PIN code, either - just put the card next to the terminal, done. (This only works for smaller charges - less than $65-ish, methinks - and every now and then you're asked to type your PIN anyway.)
      - Accacin 8y ago
        Here in the UK too we have the NFC thing and we call it 'contactless'. It works well, but the limit is £30 at the moment, although that's slowly increasing by about £5 per year. It's really popular now, all my cards and even my credit card come with it, so some people aren't happy about that naturally, although personally I've never had any problems.
        hvidgaard 8y ago
        Contactless is a really convenient technilogy. I use it all the time, to the point where I actively have to think about what my PIN is when it inevitably asks for it.
    - Rjevski 8y ago
      Probably because most US transactions are still done offline, so when an online EMV transaction is attempted the terminal has to bring up its network interface, obtain an IP, etc. Here in the UK pretty much all terminals are always online and so EMV transactions only take a couple of seconds to authorise.
craftyguy 8y ago
> But those rules don’t apply to fuel stations in the United States until October 2017 It's July 2018. So this should be in effect right? right? > Realistically is that going to change any time soon? Unlikely. Until the penalties affect consumers/voters en masse, it's highly unlikely to ever change. Even if it did, a few congressional hearings would lull voters enough to not care any longer. The only hope is that fraud becomes so expensive for the card folks that they actually enforce this themselves. Obviously that hasn't happened for all, but maybe they are making progress?
- _rs 8y ago
  Well, actually, that was delayed until 2020 now.
rhino369 8y ago
I think we have mostly converted. But small price restaurants and coffee shops are the last ones to switch. They aren’t big fraud targets since you can’t convert their product to cash. Their maginal cost is low so fraud isn’t a huge concern. Grocery stores and big ticket places seem to already have switched. Though they seem to allow swiping if your chip gets a bad read three times (under the assumption it is broken). That sort of defeats the security.
whatever_dude 8y ago
It will take a long time. I live in NY and regularly go to big stores that already have chip-capable hardware installed, but have disabled it and ask customers to swipe instead. Like anything in the US, retail businesses frequently prefer doing the opposite of what the world does, and ignore what's the most sensible decision.
clubm8 8y ago
So dumb question: What does chip and signature accomplish? I assume that someone who installs a skimmer can still use the card data somewhere that does not have a chip terminal... it is my understanding that the vast majority of fraud in the states is CNP (card not present).

Bluestrike2 8y ago

Eventually. But it's still a slow process.

adrr 8y ago

Chips require certification to make sure merchant is sending the right data over the network. This is why you see chip readers but the merchant only supports swipe. Visa and other card brands are trying to clean up all the screwed up data on network, really stupid things like a merchant bought a used card reader but never bothered to change the old merchant info on it.

StudentStuff 8y ago
Pinpads and terminals have to be re-injected with debit keys for the appropriate bank and reconfigured with the correct software load & merchant account before you can use hardware that was used by another merchant. If you don't do that, the other merchant is very likely to receive the funds you charge your clients cards for, short of their merchant account being closed. The reason EMV isn't enabled at most merchants is its both more expensive than standard swipe transactions, and massively slower unless your Costco & Kroger (who both just got quick chip). 30 seconds of waiting for a card to process, combined with EMV chip read errors due to partial insertion or failing/oxidized contacts (especially common on pinpads that aren't mounted to the table, most often the Pax S300 cause those customers are cheap AF) is a recipe for long lines. Grocers are leading the EMV transition as they are the most powerful block of merchants when it comes to beating down interchange rates and processing fees, with Walmart repeatedly suing Mastercard, and other large retailers doing the same to the other card vendors. For that small segment, they've been able to beat down Visa & Mastercard on the per kilobyte data transmission fee and on the other BS fees that make processing EMV cards more expensive than magstripe.
- ACow_Adonis 8y ago
  An honest question: why would the cost of chip processing be prohibitive and the speed of chip processing be 30 seconds of waiting in the US, when its essentially rolled out en-mass in AUS and neither of those things (appear) to applicable, or at the very least they haven't stopped mass adoption? It certainly doesn't take 30 seconds of waiting to tap and pay here...
  - lb1lf 8y ago
    Same goes for Norway; swiping is just a fallback measure if the chip is unreadable; you then have to sign at the register and your signature is supposed to be compared to the one on your card. Transaction (be it chip or swipe) is approved in a couple of seconds. The last couple of years, we've had cards fitted with NFC, too - so if the terminal is compatible, no need to type the PIN code, either - just put the card next to the terminal, done. (This only works for smaller charges - less than $65-ish, methinks - and every now and then you're asked to type your PIN anyway.)
    - Accacin 8y ago
      Here in the UK too we have the NFC thing and we call it 'contactless'. It works well, but the limit is £30 at the moment, although that's slowly increasing by about £5 per year. It's really popular now, all my cards and even my credit card come with it, so some people aren't happy about that naturally, although personally I've never had any problems.
      - hvidgaard 8y ago
        Contactless is a really convenient technilogy. I use it all the time, to the point where I actively have to think about what my PIN is when it inevitably asks for it.
  - Rjevski 8y ago
    Probably because most US transactions are still done offline, so when an online EMV transaction is attempted the terminal has to bring up its network interface, obtain an IP, etc. Here in the UK pretty much all terminals are always online and so EMV transactions only take a couple of seconds to authorise.

craftyguy 8y ago

> But those rules don’t apply to fuel stations in the United States until October 2017 It's July 2018. So this should be in effect right? right? > Realistically is that going to change any time soon? Unlikely. Until the penalties affect consumers/voters en masse, it's highly unlikely to ever change. Even if it did, a few congressional hearings would lull voters enough to not care any longer. The only hope is that fraud becomes so expensive for the card folks that they actually enforce this themselves. Obviously that hasn't happened for all, but maybe they are making progress?

_rs 8y ago
Well, actually, that was delayed until 2020 now.

rhino369 8y ago

I think we have mostly converted. But small price restaurants and coffee shops are the last ones to switch. They aren’t big fraud targets since you can’t convert their product to cash. Their maginal cost is low so fraud isn’t a huge concern. Grocery stores and big ticket places seem to already have switched. Though they seem to allow swiping if your chip gets a bad read three times (under the assumption it is broken). That sort of defeats the security.

whatever_dude 8y ago

It will take a long time. I live in NY and regularly go to big stores that already have chip-capable hardware installed, but have disabled it and ask customers to swipe instead. Like anything in the US, retail businesses frequently prefer doing the opposite of what the world does, and ignore what's the most sensible decision.

clubm8 8y ago

So dumb question: What does chip and signature accomplish? I assume that someone who installs a skimmer can still use the card data somewhere that does not have a chip terminal... it is my understanding that the vast majority of fraud in the states is CNP (card not present).