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Author Suggests Tech Focused on H1B Visa Hires to Detriment of Women, Minorities

15 points by theodpHN 8y ago

prolikewh0a 8y ago
Tech H1B = Cheap labor.
- dang 8y ago
  Please don't post unsubstantive comments here.
  - prolikewh0a 8y ago
    It's not unsubstantive at all. Per Glassdoor, tech H1B's earn substantially LESS than US Citizens (especially Software Engineers!). The OP's article is tech H1B's. I will edit the original comment for accuracy. https://www.glassdoor.com/research/h1b-workers/ https://www.glassdoor.com/research/h1b-workers/
    - tfehring 8y ago
      Unsubstantive != unsubstantiated. This context and evidence should have been included in your first comment.
      - robdachshund 8y ago
        Look out, it's the HN police
    - mc13 8y ago
      "While the H1B visa program has a complicated impact on the labor market, in this analysis we look at one common misperception about the program: that it represents a source of “cheap” foreign labor for U.S. employers. To the contrary, we find that H1B workers today are paid slightly above similar U.S. workers in the same city and job according to Glassdoor data — about 2.8 percent more on average. Whatever the pros and cons of the program, low pay for H1B workers isn’t something we see in the data." From the article you linked.
      - prolikewh0a 8y ago
        This takes into account -- all H1B workers --. For Tech H1B's, which I clarified, this is a different story. >By contrast, there are many examples of jobs where H1B workers usually earn less than U.S. workers — despite legal requirements that employers pay “prevailing wages” to H1B workers. Four examples of these types of jobs are shown in the table below: data scientist, financial analyst, programmer analyst, and software engineer. In these cases, H1B workers usually earn less than otherwise similar U.S. workers. >For example, among software engineers, H1B workers earned less than or equal to U.S. workers in every city we examined, ranging from equal median salaries in Seattle to -17 percent less in Chicago. Similarly, H1B salaries for programmer analysts were lower in nine of the 10 cities we examined, ranging from -1 percent in Atlanta to -28 percent in Chicago and Washington, D.C. (H1B pay for programmer analysts was 7 percent higher in one city: Philadelphia). It doesn't seem to list any tech jobs that are paid above US workers either, only below & at average. I am not saying all H1B workers are paid less than US citizens.
        ganeshkrishnan 8y ago
        Most of these studies do not take into effect the "cost to companies" for hiring h1b employees. They are higher than citizens. Plus h1b pay taxes, and SSN tax which only a tiny portion of them claim back
patrickg_zill 8y ago
Reality is that a woman can do better than going into tech. Getting an MBA is easier than an MS in computer science, pays better and hours can be better too. More flexibility in case there is a second dotcom bubble.
- llampx 8y ago
  Problem with that mentality is that on a macro level, you only need a certain number of MBAs. Not everyone is cut out to be an MBA, and not every MBA is going to use that degree to the full extent. Not to mention this completely ignores brain wiring and interests/skills. Women engineers are underrepresented in every part of the world, and the problem has to be fixed by helping the (mostly female) teachers and counsellors from the primary school level so they can talk about the subjects to girls. The less they know about the subject, the more they'll talk about what they know.
  - patrickg_zill 8y ago
    My point is that "underrepresented" means nothing if there are other, possibly better, professions to enter into. Do we complain about the number of women in the Alaskan commercial fishing industry (which is highly paid but very dangerous)?
ganeshkrishnan 8y ago
In Scandinavian countries with almost no h1b equivalents the amount of women in tech is substantially lower http://www.thejournal.ie/gender-equality-countries-stem-girls-3848156-Feb2018/ http://www.thejournal.ie/gender-equality-countries-stem-girl... Few of my acquaintances are high school teachers and almost all the girls have an image of IT as nerdy / geeky with overweight guys banging on the keyboards. IMO you need to get rid of the image of STEM being social awkward, male dominated field. I took some of their girl students to my office and showed them various kinds of IT work and how it can be interesting and surprisingly a huge number of them signed up for IT in their University
Karishma1234 8y ago
Allow H4 visa holders to work and see how that number shoots up. Also what minorities are they talking about ? Jewish, Hindus and Muslims are very well represented in tech. Blacks and Hispanics lag behind in all STEM in general but they was substantially better in other areas such as sports where you dont see a Asian or Hindu.

15 points by theodpHN 8y ago

prolikewh0a 8y ago

Tech H1B = Cheap labor.

dang 8y ago
Please don't post unsubstantive comments here.
- prolikewh0a 8y ago
  It's not unsubstantive at all. Per Glassdoor, tech H1B's earn substantially LESS than US Citizens (especially Software Engineers!). The OP's article is tech H1B's. I will edit the original comment for accuracy. https://www.glassdoor.com/research/h1b-workers/ https://www.glassdoor.com/research/h1b-workers/
  - tfehring 8y ago
    Unsubstantive != unsubstantiated. This context and evidence should have been included in your first comment.
    - robdachshund 8y ago
      Look out, it's the HN police
  - mc13 8y ago
    "While the H1B visa program has a complicated impact on the labor market, in this analysis we look at one common misperception about the program: that it represents a source of “cheap” foreign labor for U.S. employers. To the contrary, we find that H1B workers today are paid slightly above similar U.S. workers in the same city and job according to Glassdoor data — about 2.8 percent more on average. Whatever the pros and cons of the program, low pay for H1B workers isn’t something we see in the data." From the article you linked.
    - prolikewh0a 8y ago
      This takes into account -- all H1B workers --. For Tech H1B's, which I clarified, this is a different story. >By contrast, there are many examples of jobs where H1B workers usually earn less than U.S. workers — despite legal requirements that employers pay “prevailing wages” to H1B workers. Four examples of these types of jobs are shown in the table below: data scientist, financial analyst, programmer analyst, and software engineer. In these cases, H1B workers usually earn less than otherwise similar U.S. workers. >For example, among software engineers, H1B workers earned less than or equal to U.S. workers in every city we examined, ranging from equal median salaries in Seattle to -17 percent less in Chicago. Similarly, H1B salaries for programmer analysts were lower in nine of the 10 cities we examined, ranging from -1 percent in Atlanta to -28 percent in Chicago and Washington, D.C. (H1B pay for programmer analysts was 7 percent higher in one city: Philadelphia). It doesn't seem to list any tech jobs that are paid above US workers either, only below & at average. I am not saying all H1B workers are paid less than US citizens.
      - ganeshkrishnan 8y ago
        Most of these studies do not take into effect the "cost to companies" for hiring h1b employees. They are higher than citizens. Plus h1b pay taxes, and SSN tax which only a tiny portion of them claim back

patrickg_zill 8y ago

Reality is that a woman can do better than going into tech. Getting an MBA is easier than an MS in computer science, pays better and hours can be better too. More flexibility in case there is a second dotcom bubble.

llampx 8y ago
Problem with that mentality is that on a macro level, you only need a certain number of MBAs. Not everyone is cut out to be an MBA, and not every MBA is going to use that degree to the full extent. Not to mention this completely ignores brain wiring and interests/skills. Women engineers are underrepresented in every part of the world, and the problem has to be fixed by helping the (mostly female) teachers and counsellors from the primary school level so they can talk about the subjects to girls. The less they know about the subject, the more they'll talk about what they know.
- patrickg_zill 8y ago
  My point is that "underrepresented" means nothing if there are other, possibly better, professions to enter into. Do we complain about the number of women in the Alaskan commercial fishing industry (which is highly paid but very dangerous)?

ganeshkrishnan 8y ago

In Scandinavian countries with almost no h1b equivalents the amount of women in tech is substantially lower http://www.thejournal.ie/gender-equality-countries-stem-girls-3848156-Feb2018/ http://www.thejournal.ie/gender-equality-countries-stem-girl... Few of my acquaintances are high school teachers and almost all the girls have an image of IT as nerdy / geeky with overweight guys banging on the keyboards. IMO you need to get rid of the image of STEM being social awkward, male dominated field. I took some of their girl students to my office and showed them various kinds of IT work and how it can be interesting and surprisingly a huge number of them signed up for IT in their University

Karishma1234 8y ago

Allow H4 visa holders to work and see how that number shoots up. Also what minorities are they talking about ? Jewish, Hindus and Muslims are very well represented in tech. Blacks and Hispanics lag behind in all STEM in general but they was substantially better in other areas such as sports where you dont see a Asian or Hindu.