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This is often very illegal to do on a bicycle. On a motorcycle lane position is very situational... however very very rarely if you are in motion is being in t

This is often very illegal to do on a bicycle. On a motorcycle lane position is very situational... however very very rarely if you are in motion is being in the middle of the lane a good idea. Generally speaking you should only be in the middle of the lane when you are fully stopped at a stop sign or light to keep cars from trying to squeeze by you. On a normal two lane road (one each direction) you want to stay in the left hand side of the lane. This is so people over taking a car behind you spot you and don't force themselves in putting you in a dangerous spot. On a four lane road (two lanes each way) you would hold the same position as previously mentioned if you were in the right lane however if you are in the left lane you would want to stay to the right side of that lane... this way again someone merging in from the right lane would see you.

kevinschumacher 8y ago
> [riding in the middle of the lane] is often very illegal to do on a bicycle. Where are you from? In the few major US cities I've lived, this is legal. The road laws here typically treat bicycles the same as other cars (with exceptions). IME, in urban, US east-coast cities, if you are toward one side of the lane, cars will try and pass you (even on the right... and yes that pushes the cyclist into oncoming traffic). It's a common opinion that you should take the whole lane, and let faster vehicles pass you as they would a slower car.
- monkeywork 8y ago
  I would suggest actually looking into the traffic law - MOST - places explicitly state that bicycles should (with very few very specific exceptions) remain to the right side of the lane. The Cyclist community disagree's with this in most places I've seen it mentioned but that doesn't change what the laws are. I'm not arguing safety I'm simply stating what is written. Obviously this varies from area to area but again suggest looking up what it actually states rather than your impression of it. As far as cars passing you - if you are to the right side of the lane as most traffic laws require then cars should be able to easily pass you on the left without incident. In my opinion a cyclist should not be purposely using an entire lane and backing up traffic for faster moving vehicles (forcing them to pass as they would a slower car which can cause issues during high traffic periods) when simply moving to the right is all that is required. Using the entire lane as a matter of principle increases your danger by provoking aggressive driving / road rage.
  - btrettel 8y ago
    As someone who has read the law in multiple states, your reading of the law seems to be selective. You state that there are "very few very specific exceptions", when in California I count 7 exceptions that cover a lot: 1. When the cyclist is going at or near the speed limit. 2. When the cyclist is overtaking or passing. 3. When the cyclist is preparing for a left turn. 4. When the cyclist deems it necessary for safety. 5. When the cyclist is preparing for a right turn. 6. When the cyclist is on a one way road with two or more lanes. 7. When signs and road markings say so. My own experience as a cyclist suggests that these exceptions apply over 95% of the time, if not over 99%. It seems misleading to me to say there are "very few very specific exceptions" given this. This is particularly true for the safety exception. Most lanes are simply too narrow to move to the far right as you suggest. That's doubly true if there's parking on the side, as the cyclist wants to avoid the door zone. Add on top of all this all the debris that accumulates to the far right. Etc. (The first 6 exceptions are written in the law. The 7th was added later when I realized it also applies. https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=21202 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio...)
    - monkeywork 8y ago
      In general terms I find that: 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7 = all rare (or only valid for brief moments in time). You seem to be lumping #4 in for all cases which is a subjective view and I would argue isn't at all close to 95 or 99% of the time. Thus I maintain that "very few very specific exceptions" applies and is not selective reading. I'd further suggest that you're pushing an agenda instead of being pragmatic and honest. It's fine if you don't like the laws as written, it's fine if you think things should be different in terms of how cyclists are treated on the road, however instead of trying to play loop hole games just get the laws changed.
      - btrettel 8y ago
        On what basis do you say these are rare? My experience as a cyclist differs strongly with your statements. Many drivers don't seem to realize that cyclists take very different paths than drivers do. You might be thinking "where I drive, these exceptions usually don't apply" but you should instead be thinking about where cyclists ride. Yes, these paths do intersect, but a cyclist will typically pick lower stress paths. Let's take my commute as an example, starting at my home: 1. Bike lane until I have to make a left turn. I take the travel lane to make the turn. Note that as far as I'm aware, using the left turn lane (i.e., taking the lane) is required by law, not merely allowed for cyclists. This is because turning left from the far right is obviously dangerous. Do you think left turns are rare? I don't. 2. Short road segment leading to a stop light. I take the lane here because the speed is low. 3. Right turn onto a road with signs and road markings saying that cyclists can take the lane. Despite the signs, I get harassed by road raging drivers here much more frequently than I'd like. (The reason for the signs seems to be a reminder of the previous #4 to drivers. The single lane is perhaps 9 feet wide and there are parked cars on the right. Definitely unsafe to ride far to the right. I've been nearly doored riding in the center of the lane here. But all of this is irrelevant, as I don't need to invoke #4 to ride in the lane center here.) 4. Three stop lights in a row. Again, I take the lane because I'm no slower than anyone else. 5. 15 mph speed limit for about 3/4 of a mile until the destination. I take the lane because I'm usually going faster than that. This path includes both left and right turns. Often during my commute I'll pass other cyclists who are going slower than I am. It's not uncommon for me to pass motor vehicles too, especially in the 15 mph part. So my commute includes all of these aside from 4, 5, and 6. I can't be "lumping #4 in for all cases" here. I don't take the lane for my entire commute. But for the 2/3 of my commute that doesn't have bike lanes, it's easy to legally justify taking the regular travel lane. And to be clear, here's my agenda: Cycling safely on the road. The main obstacle I see is dangerous drivers, and sometimes the solution is to take the lane. If you don't like that, encourage your fellow drivers to treat cyclists nicer.
u801e 8y ago
> This is often very illegal to do on a bicycle. Most states, in the USA, base their vehicle laws on the uniform vehicle code (UVC). Though they state that those riding bicycles at less than the normal speed of traffic must ride as far right as practicable, they will list a number of exceptions for that requirement. One of those exceptions is if the lane is of substandard width which is defined as a lane that is too narrow for a car and cyclist to travel safely side by side [1] Since a cyclist is about 2.5 feet wide[3] and many states have a 3 feet distance passing lane, the cyclist, even if they're riding further to the right will still need 2 feet to their right, their width, and 3 feet to their left. That adds up to 7 to 7.5 feet. Given that most surface street lanes are 10 feet wide[2] and passenger vehicle are about 6 feet wide[3], then it's not possible for a car and cyclist to safely travel side by side within the lane. So the lane positioning you describe when driving a motorcycle also applies to bicycles. [1] http://iamtraffic.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/UVC2000.pdf http://iamtraffic.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/UVC2000.pdf (section 11-1205 Position on Roadway item 3 -- page 185 of the pdf) [2] https://nacto.org/publication/urban-street-design-guide/street-design-elements/lane-width/ https://nacto.org/publication/urban-street-design-guide/stre... [3] https://nacto.org/publication/transit-street-design-guide/transit-lanes-transitways/lane-design-controls/vehicle-widths-buffers/ https://nacto.org/publication/transit-street-design-guide/tr...

kevinschumacher 8y ago

> [riding in the middle of the lane] is often very illegal to do on a bicycle. Where are you from? In the few major US cities I've lived, this is legal. The road laws here typically treat bicycles the same as other cars (with exceptions). IME, in urban, US east-coast cities, if you are toward one side of the lane, cars will try and pass you (even on the right... and yes that pushes the cyclist into oncoming traffic). It's a common opinion that you should take the whole lane, and let faster vehicles pass you as they would a slower car.

monkeywork 8y ago
I would suggest actually looking into the traffic law - MOST - places explicitly state that bicycles should (with very few very specific exceptions) remain to the right side of the lane. The Cyclist community disagree's with this in most places I've seen it mentioned but that doesn't change what the laws are. I'm not arguing safety I'm simply stating what is written. Obviously this varies from area to area but again suggest looking up what it actually states rather than your impression of it. As far as cars passing you - if you are to the right side of the lane as most traffic laws require then cars should be able to easily pass you on the left without incident. In my opinion a cyclist should not be purposely using an entire lane and backing up traffic for faster moving vehicles (forcing them to pass as they would a slower car which can cause issues during high traffic periods) when simply moving to the right is all that is required. Using the entire lane as a matter of principle increases your danger by provoking aggressive driving / road rage.
- btrettel 8y ago
  As someone who has read the law in multiple states, your reading of the law seems to be selective. You state that there are "very few very specific exceptions", when in California I count 7 exceptions that cover a lot: 1. When the cyclist is going at or near the speed limit. 2. When the cyclist is overtaking or passing. 3. When the cyclist is preparing for a left turn. 4. When the cyclist deems it necessary for safety. 5. When the cyclist is preparing for a right turn. 6. When the cyclist is on a one way road with two or more lanes. 7. When signs and road markings say so. My own experience as a cyclist suggests that these exceptions apply over 95% of the time, if not over 99%. It seems misleading to me to say there are "very few very specific exceptions" given this. This is particularly true for the safety exception. Most lanes are simply too narrow to move to the far right as you suggest. That's doubly true if there's parking on the side, as the cyclist wants to avoid the door zone. Add on top of all this all the debris that accumulates to the far right. Etc. (The first 6 exceptions are written in the law. The 7th was added later when I realized it also applies. https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=21202 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio...)
  - monkeywork 8y ago
    In general terms I find that: 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7 = all rare (or only valid for brief moments in time). You seem to be lumping #4 in for all cases which is a subjective view and I would argue isn't at all close to 95 or 99% of the time. Thus I maintain that "very few very specific exceptions" applies and is not selective reading. I'd further suggest that you're pushing an agenda instead of being pragmatic and honest. It's fine if you don't like the laws as written, it's fine if you think things should be different in terms of how cyclists are treated on the road, however instead of trying to play loop hole games just get the laws changed.
    - btrettel 8y ago
      On what basis do you say these are rare? My experience as a cyclist differs strongly with your statements. Many drivers don't seem to realize that cyclists take very different paths than drivers do. You might be thinking "where I drive, these exceptions usually don't apply" but you should instead be thinking about where cyclists ride. Yes, these paths do intersect, but a cyclist will typically pick lower stress paths. Let's take my commute as an example, starting at my home: 1. Bike lane until I have to make a left turn. I take the travel lane to make the turn. Note that as far as I'm aware, using the left turn lane (i.e., taking the lane) is required by law, not merely allowed for cyclists. This is because turning left from the far right is obviously dangerous. Do you think left turns are rare? I don't. 2. Short road segment leading to a stop light. I take the lane here because the speed is low. 3. Right turn onto a road with signs and road markings saying that cyclists can take the lane. Despite the signs, I get harassed by road raging drivers here much more frequently than I'd like. (The reason for the signs seems to be a reminder of the previous #4 to drivers. The single lane is perhaps 9 feet wide and there are parked cars on the right. Definitely unsafe to ride far to the right. I've been nearly doored riding in the center of the lane here. But all of this is irrelevant, as I don't need to invoke #4 to ride in the lane center here.) 4. Three stop lights in a row. Again, I take the lane because I'm no slower than anyone else. 5. 15 mph speed limit for about 3/4 of a mile until the destination. I take the lane because I'm usually going faster than that. This path includes both left and right turns. Often during my commute I'll pass other cyclists who are going slower than I am. It's not uncommon for me to pass motor vehicles too, especially in the 15 mph part. So my commute includes all of these aside from 4, 5, and 6. I can't be "lumping #4 in for all cases" here. I don't take the lane for my entire commute. But for the 2/3 of my commute that doesn't have bike lanes, it's easy to legally justify taking the regular travel lane. And to be clear, here's my agenda: Cycling safely on the road. The main obstacle I see is dangerous drivers, and sometimes the solution is to take the lane. If you don't like that, encourage your fellow drivers to treat cyclists nicer.

u801e 8y ago

> This is often very illegal to do on a bicycle. Most states, in the USA, base their vehicle laws on the uniform vehicle code (UVC). Though they state that those riding bicycles at less than the normal speed of traffic must ride as far right as practicable, they will list a number of exceptions for that requirement. One of those exceptions is if the lane is of substandard width which is defined as a lane that is too narrow for a car and cyclist to travel safely side by side [1] Since a cyclist is about 2.5 feet wide[3] and many states have a 3 feet distance passing lane, the cyclist, even if they're riding further to the right will still need 2 feet to their right, their width, and 3 feet to their left. That adds up to 7 to 7.5 feet. Given that most surface street lanes are 10 feet wide[2] and passenger vehicle are about 6 feet wide[3], then it's not possible for a car and cyclist to safely travel side by side within the lane. So the lane positioning you describe when driving a motorcycle also applies to bicycles. [1] http://iamtraffic.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/UVC2000.pdf http://iamtraffic.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/UVC2000.pdf (section 11-1205 Position on Roadway item 3 -- page 185 of the pdf) [2] https://nacto.org/publication/urban-street-design-guide/street-design-elements/lane-width/ https://nacto.org/publication/urban-street-design-guide/stre... [3] https://nacto.org/publication/transit-street-design-guide/transit-lanes-transitways/lane-design-controls/vehicle-widths-buffers/ https://nacto.org/publication/transit-street-design-guide/tr...