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Humane to who? Ending one person’s life kills you a little on the inside, too. I have had to put three dogs to “sleep” and the fourth will come sooner than I w

Humane to who? Ending one person’s life kills you a little on the inside, too. I have had to put three dogs to “sleep” and the fourth will come sooner than I want. I am not a better person because of it.

gambiting 8y ago
I have gone through exactly this with my dad, where he was in an unbelivable amounts of pain and eventually was being given so much morphine he wasn't conscious at all in his final 4 days. So we just kept vigil next to his bed at the hospital 24/7, and there was absolutely nothing dignified about it, we were literally sitting next to my dad who was slowly starving do death. It was so disturbing I still have issues because of it. My dad might have chosen euthanasia, or he might not have done - but not giving him that choice in the first place(euthanasia is illegal here) and instead going towards sedating someone to a point where there is no dignity to speak about is horrendous to me.
wpietri 8y ago
Having been legally required to make the decision of when to withdraw care for three different relatives, I think this is nonsense. When someone is going to die, there is no good way, no good time. But there are worse ways and times. As technology gives us more power to extend life of body, we are forced to considered what that means, and how to use that power wisely. Three times I have had to decide when somebody's life ended. I think their are practical differences between deciding to withdraw care and choosing more active measures. But I think there is no moral difference. Either way, somebody vulnerable has placed their life in your hands. Either way, your only real choice is when to give up hope, and how much suffering they endure between that point and death. I honestly don't give a fuck whether you're a better person for it. Or whether I am. It's not about us. The important question is whether you have done the best you can for the person. And "best" here, I think means something like "in accordance with their informed preferences, or as best as we can guess". To that end, I strongly encourage everybody to get their families together and have real discussions about this. The Five Wishes framework is one good option. [1] The best thing my mom ever did for me was to have a frank conversation with me and my brother about her end-of-life preferences well before she was sick. Don't make your loved ones guess. And don't put yourself in the position of having to guess for them. Personally, if I end up with something gruesome and terminal, I aim to die well before things get awful. Like Brittany Maynard, [2] I'd much rather go out on my terms than suffer pointlessly until my body fails, consuming absurd amounts of medical effort. Others can do differently, of course, but there's no way I'd want a doctor who frets they're going to die "a little on the inside" by following my advance care directive. [1] https://fivewishes.org/five-wishes/advance-care-planning https://fivewishes.org/five-wishes/advance-care-planning [2] https://www.kqed.org/perspectives/201410280735/its-brittany-maynards-life https://www.kqed.org/perspectives/201410280735/its-brittany-...
- pdonis 8y ago
  Can't upvote this enough. I haven't been in this position as often as you have, but enough to say that all of your comments and advice are spot on.
flatline 8y ago
I don’t expect it to be somehow advantageous to me, it is about lessening the suffering of another being. Plus my mom had stated for years that she wanted euthanasia if it got to that point, but it was not a legal option.
wavefunction 8y ago
I'm not looking forward to when I have to do it with my own dogs but making sure their death is the least awful is our own act of love towards them.
rabboRubble 8y ago
Will repeat myself for a third time. You feel that way after tending to end of life for your 4 dogs. Imagine how it must feel for your carer when it comes time for your end of life. Get an advanced directive documented, make it legal, and take the burden off other people to guess what your preferences would be. In a way, it is a kindness to your future carer. That way if your carer disagrees with your preferences or finds it a hard burden, they can point to something you wrote and be able to comfort themselves with "that's the way he wanted it."
dismantlethesun 8y ago
> Ending one person’s life kills you a little on the inside, too. Are you saying this in a metaphysical sense? Secondly, if you don't want to put your dogs to sleep, no one is forcing you to do so, just refuse it and allow them to live in pain till they die of old age. It's not the choice I would make, but then I don't have your views on euthanasia.
pdonis 8y ago
As wpietri said, it isn't about you. It's about them. It's actually harder in some ways with pets because they can't talk and tell you detailed preferences for how they want to go when it's their time. All you have is the general guideline that, if their condition can't be treated and they are going to have to die, you want to minimize their suffering. I've had to do it with four cats, and we have two dogs now whose time will come eventually. It's not easy, but it's not like you have a choice; you made the choice when you took them into your life in the first place. And don't forget that making the choice to let them into your life adds a lot more to your life than whatever the pain of having to put them to sleep takes away. Our two dogs are both rescues; we have given them many years of happy life (and many more to come) that they would otherwise not have had at all. And they have given us a lot of happiness in return. That will always be there whatever comes.

gambiting 8y ago

I have gone through exactly this with my dad, where he was in an unbelivable amounts of pain and eventually was being given so much morphine he wasn't conscious at all in his final 4 days. So we just kept vigil next to his bed at the hospital 24/7, and there was absolutely nothing dignified about it, we were literally sitting next to my dad who was slowly starving do death. It was so disturbing I still have issues because of it. My dad might have chosen euthanasia, or he might not have done - but not giving him that choice in the first place(euthanasia is illegal here) and instead going towards sedating someone to a point where there is no dignity to speak about is horrendous to me.

wpietri 8y ago

Having been legally required to make the decision of when to withdraw care for three different relatives, I think this is nonsense. When someone is going to die, there is no good way, no good time. But there are worse ways and times. As technology gives us more power to extend life of body, we are forced to considered what that means, and how to use that power wisely. Three times I have had to decide when somebody's life ended. I think their are practical differences between deciding to withdraw care and choosing more active measures. But I think there is no moral difference. Either way, somebody vulnerable has placed their life in your hands. Either way, your only real choice is when to give up hope, and how much suffering they endure between that point and death. I honestly don't give a fuck whether you're a better person for it. Or whether I am. It's not about us. The important question is whether you have done the best you can for the person. And "best" here, I think means something like "in accordance with their informed preferences, or as best as we can guess". To that end, I strongly encourage everybody to get their families together and have real discussions about this. The Five Wishes framework is one good option. [1] The best thing my mom ever did for me was to have a frank conversation with me and my brother about her end-of-life preferences well before she was sick. Don't make your loved ones guess. And don't put yourself in the position of having to guess for them. Personally, if I end up with something gruesome and terminal, I aim to die well before things get awful. Like Brittany Maynard, [2] I'd much rather go out on my terms than suffer pointlessly until my body fails, consuming absurd amounts of medical effort. Others can do differently, of course, but there's no way I'd want a doctor who frets they're going to die "a little on the inside" by following my advance care directive. [1] https://fivewishes.org/five-wishes/advance-care-planning https://fivewishes.org/five-wishes/advance-care-planning [2] https://www.kqed.org/perspectives/201410280735/its-brittany-maynards-life https://www.kqed.org/perspectives/201410280735/its-brittany-...

pdonis 8y ago
Can't upvote this enough. I haven't been in this position as often as you have, but enough to say that all of your comments and advice are spot on.

flatline 8y ago

I don’t expect it to be somehow advantageous to me, it is about lessening the suffering of another being. Plus my mom had stated for years that she wanted euthanasia if it got to that point, but it was not a legal option.

wavefunction 8y ago

I'm not looking forward to when I have to do it with my own dogs but making sure their death is the least awful is our own act of love towards them.

rabboRubble 8y ago

Will repeat myself for a third time. You feel that way after tending to end of life for your 4 dogs. Imagine how it must feel for your carer when it comes time for your end of life. Get an advanced directive documented, make it legal, and take the burden off other people to guess what your preferences would be. In a way, it is a kindness to your future carer. That way if your carer disagrees with your preferences or finds it a hard burden, they can point to something you wrote and be able to comfort themselves with "that's the way he wanted it."

dismantlethesun 8y ago

> Ending one person’s life kills you a little on the inside, too. Are you saying this in a metaphysical sense? Secondly, if you don't want to put your dogs to sleep, no one is forcing you to do so, just refuse it and allow them to live in pain till they die of old age. It's not the choice I would make, but then I don't have your views on euthanasia.

pdonis 8y ago

As wpietri said, it isn't about you. It's about them. It's actually harder in some ways with pets because they can't talk and tell you detailed preferences for how they want to go when it's their time. All you have is the general guideline that, if their condition can't be treated and they are going to have to die, you want to minimize their suffering. I've had to do it with four cats, and we have two dogs now whose time will come eventually. It's not easy, but it's not like you have a choice; you made the choice when you took them into your life in the first place. And don't forget that making the choice to let them into your life adds a lot more to your life than whatever the pain of having to put them to sleep takes away. Our two dogs are both rescues; we have given them many years of happy life (and many more to come) that they would otherwise not have had at all. And they have given us a lot of happiness in return. That will always be there whatever comes.