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We've been conditioned to believe that trades such as plumbing, carpentry, construction, etc. are beneath high IQ people so it's easy to see how this mentality

We've been conditioned to believe that trades such as plumbing, carpentry, construction, etc. are beneath high IQ people so it's easy to see how this mentality carries through into software engineering. Infrastructure, properly done, outlasts its own empires.

williamscales 8y ago
My father-in-law has two master's degrees and was a highly sought-after fiber optic design engineer back during the dot-com boom. He deeply enjoyed the stimulation of the R&D work but hated the severe work pressure. Now he works as a fiber optic field engineer installing new systems for telecom companies and he's incredibly happy. He loves to build a beautiful installation and his industry knowledge makes him extremely effective at his job.
gnarcoregrizz 8y ago
I've met people in the trades that are just as smart, or smarter than most white collar folk, including software engineers. A lot of these people may have dropped out of high school or college, but street smarts are real Some of the successful ones that own their own businesses are able to make a lot of money (a consistent >500k/year). The downsides are that those businesses are difficult to scale since they are service oriented, and they depend on good physical health. Moreover, consistent quality is mostly the responsibility of the owners, and again, that can't always scale far either. You also get out what you put in, in most cases it seems like the pay is a linear function of productivity. It's definitely not easy or normal to make that much, but it's doable as a tradesman
- et-al 8y ago
  Agree with everything you've mentioned. One thing I'll add about tradesmen is they're some of the wittiest people to hang out with. Makes sense considering half the time it's a bunch of folks riffing on each other on the job.
  - noir_lord 8y ago
    Aye, You reminer me of a funny story. Before I was a programmer I was an industrial electrician and had worked on sites, after I was a programmer we where down on a site installing some equipment and a plumber walked past and said “your the guys who came 200 miles to turn on a switch right?” And I instantly replied “nah, we just heard there was a scouser doing some work so we had to come look!” the techie I was with looked like he was gonna shit himself but the other guys around fell about laughing. The thing with work sites is you can’t take any shit but you won’t find funnier people either.
    - Baeocystin 8y ago
      Sometimes I really do miss my old welding job in the shipyards, and the fun of the people I was working with is a big part of it. (It was also the most meritocratic job I've ever had- your ability, or lack thereof, was on display for everyone to see. And working on teams where everyone is competent is a joy, virtually regardless of actual task.)
52-6F-62 8y ago
My father is a pipefitter (he just hit his pension date and can now retire without any penalties whenever he's ready), and it always kind of felt that way. He worked in the wrong field for him exactly, but his skill in his trade is somewhat rare. The man was not properly educated in many fields, but if it has anything to do with welding, he's a complete wizard. You would never know what he knows about a subject, because he might not understand all of the context or language with which a question is asked with regard to chemistry or physics... yet he does know. He can perform complex calculations in his head, on the spot, and seamlessly weld two or more different types of metals of different thicknesses in the most inhumane physical positions, and that's a Tuesday for him. I swear he should have been working on rocket engines and not in an oil refinery, but he was never exposed to the possibility. He expresses sometimes how he wanted each of my siblings and I to have a trade each unto ourselves, yet fails to understand that what I do can factor into that as much as carpentry, welding/pipefitting, plumbing, or otherwise. It's funny... savant-like. Anyway, in short, I agree. :)
bsder 8y ago
> We've been conditioned to believe that trades such as plumbing, carpentry, construction, etc. are beneath high IQ people This is a rational reaction, actually. The problem with he "trades" is that they are often very physically demanding and take a great toll on your body over the years. They also often have a very high potential for debilitating injury. A 70 year old programmer is no longer rare. A 70 year old tradesman is a unicorn.

williamscales 8y ago

My father-in-law has two master's degrees and was a highly sought-after fiber optic design engineer back during the dot-com boom. He deeply enjoyed the stimulation of the R&D work but hated the severe work pressure. Now he works as a fiber optic field engineer installing new systems for telecom companies and he's incredibly happy. He loves to build a beautiful installation and his industry knowledge makes him extremely effective at his job.

gnarcoregrizz 8y ago

I've met people in the trades that are just as smart, or smarter than most white collar folk, including software engineers. A lot of these people may have dropped out of high school or college, but street smarts are real Some of the successful ones that own their own businesses are able to make a lot of money (a consistent >500k/year). The downsides are that those businesses are difficult to scale since they are service oriented, and they depend on good physical health. Moreover, consistent quality is mostly the responsibility of the owners, and again, that can't always scale far either. You also get out what you put in, in most cases it seems like the pay is a linear function of productivity. It's definitely not easy or normal to make that much, but it's doable as a tradesman

et-al 8y ago
Agree with everything you've mentioned. One thing I'll add about tradesmen is they're some of the wittiest people to hang out with. Makes sense considering half the time it's a bunch of folks riffing on each other on the job.
- noir_lord 8y ago
  Aye, You reminer me of a funny story. Before I was a programmer I was an industrial electrician and had worked on sites, after I was a programmer we where down on a site installing some equipment and a plumber walked past and said “your the guys who came 200 miles to turn on a switch right?” And I instantly replied “nah, we just heard there was a scouser doing some work so we had to come look!” the techie I was with looked like he was gonna shit himself but the other guys around fell about laughing. The thing with work sites is you can’t take any shit but you won’t find funnier people either.
  - Baeocystin 8y ago
    Sometimes I really do miss my old welding job in the shipyards, and the fun of the people I was working with is a big part of it. (It was also the most meritocratic job I've ever had- your ability, or lack thereof, was on display for everyone to see. And working on teams where everyone is competent is a joy, virtually regardless of actual task.)

52-6F-62 8y ago

My father is a pipefitter (he just hit his pension date and can now retire without any penalties whenever he's ready), and it always kind of felt that way. He worked in the wrong field for him exactly, but his skill in his trade is somewhat rare. The man was not properly educated in many fields, but if it has anything to do with welding, he's a complete wizard. You would never know what he knows about a subject, because he might not understand all of the context or language with which a question is asked with regard to chemistry or physics... yet he does know. He can perform complex calculations in his head, on the spot, and seamlessly weld two or more different types of metals of different thicknesses in the most inhumane physical positions, and that's a Tuesday for him. I swear he should have been working on rocket engines and not in an oil refinery, but he was never exposed to the possibility. He expresses sometimes how he wanted each of my siblings and I to have a trade each unto ourselves, yet fails to understand that what I do can factor into that as much as carpentry, welding/pipefitting, plumbing, or otherwise. It's funny... savant-like. Anyway, in short, I agree. :)

bsder 8y ago

> We've been conditioned to believe that trades such as plumbing, carpentry, construction, etc. are beneath high IQ people This is a rational reaction, actually. The problem with he "trades" is that they are often very physically demanding and take a great toll on your body over the years. They also often have a very high potential for debilitating injury. A 70 year old programmer is no longer rare. A 70 year old tradesman is a unicorn.