9 ms·

This is a really interesting read for me, as I'm considering the purchase of a cargo bike. Apparently, I fit the stereotype pretty well -- highly-educated urban

by kaitai 8y ago

This is a really interesting read for me, as I'm considering the purchase of a cargo bike. Apparently, I fit the stereotype pretty well -- highly-educated urban coffee-drinker (no yoga, no vegetarianism, though). The cargo bike would solve the problem of hauling hardware-store purchases home with kid and sans car. But they're expensive! 1.5 or 2 thousand dollars! So for now we're making do with the bus and the stroller we found with a "free" sign on the side of the road. It is important to be thoughtful about the roles various types of transportation play for people of different socioeconomic groups in the US. I take the bus and train often in my town, and it's generally a very mixed population. The train/light-rail is becoming a de facto homeless shelter at night, though. At the same time light rail gets criticized for being for the upper class, rather than efficiently serving the poor, because it goes between downtowns/to the airport/to the suburbs/to the sports complexes. Biking, as well, has huge class and race divides. In the US the weekend spandex-wearer is a huge set of the bicycling public. Everyday commuters are a segment too, and then family weekend bikers, and then people who've lost their drivers' licenses due to DUI/DWI or other entanglement with the criminal justice system. How these communities interact and how they use our infrastructure differently is worth considering when planning new investments or thinking about how to encourage bicycling. The weekend warrior wants a nice scenic 45-mile continuous route; I want a seamless path across the city that doesn't involve battling any cars at highway speeds to get into the left-turn lane; neither of us wants to run over a 5-year-old getting the hang of the bike.

Symbiote 8y ago
Check the resale value. In Denmark, cargo bikes hold their value very well in the second hand market.
TomK32 8y ago
yes, they are expensive, but once you have a cargo bike you can carry home a tig welder, alu pipes and all the other stuff to build a cargo bike :D No seriously, they are expensive but if you look at craigslist and similar, they keep their value if you take care of your bike. and regarding road safety, ride in the right tire-mark left by the cars. you'll be safe from dooring and cars have to slow down and change lanes to overtake you instead of squeezing through.
- whatshisface 8y ago
  >ride in the right tire-mark left by the cars. If you're going to do that, why not just ride in the center of the lane like a motorcycle?
  - edoceo 8y ago
    The center of the lane is slick with oil drippings, especially after rain. Right side tire rut is visible in rear-view mirror.
  - 1over137 8y ago
    Riding in the centre of a lane is illegal in many places.
    - bluejekyll 8y ago
      Where? In CA a cyclist has as much right to the road as a car. A mistake I often see cyclists make is to allow themselves to be stuck in a very narrow space between the center of the lane and the edge of the road/curb/parked cars. When the road is too narrow, and there isn’t a safe place for a car to pass you, it’s important to consume the space in a way that makes it obvious to cars that they should not attempt to pass you. Yes, there are some a-holes this pisses off because they had to slow down and lose 30 seconds of their day, but it’s far safer, and worth being honked at.
      - maxerickson 8y ago
        Michigan has a keep right except when necessary law. So you can take the lane to turn left or if you believe keeping right is dangerous, etc.
      - monkeywork 8y ago
        https://losangelesbicyclelaw.com/california-bicycle-laws-overview/ https://losangelesbicyclelaw.com/california-bicycle-laws-ove... "When there isn’t a bicycle lane, try to stay near the right curb. Unless you are moving faster than vehicle traffic, passing another bicycle, or making a left turn, you should typically stay close to the curb or road’s edge." http://www.calbike.org/bicycling_in_california_sharing_the_road http://www.calbike.org/bicycling_in_california_sharing_the_r... "The law says that people who ride bikes must ride as close to the right side of the road as practicable except under the following conditions: when passing, preparing for a left turn, avoiding hazards, if the lane is too narrow to share, or if approaching a place where a right turn is authorized."
1over137 8y ago
Expensive compared to a regular bike, but cheap compared to a car.
- EpicEng 8y ago
  Depends on your definition of "regular bike". I have a road bike and a MTB, both of which cost a fair bit more than this one.
- justinator 8y ago
  Cheaper to own once bought too, yes? No gas or insurance, parking tickets, etc. Get rid of your gym membership, too! Food bill may be slightly higher, but you can haul bags of rice by the 10kg bag!
  - kzrdude 8y ago
    The stressful part is that bikes are easy to lose, they get stolen. I ride a €80 used bike for that reason.
    - justinator 8y ago
      I have somehow avoided this problem! I got rid of my car almost 15 years ago, and have been on bikes 100% of the time since then. I've had 0 bikes stolen. 9 countries ridden in, so far! The threat of getting hit by a car is the biggest hurtle of mass adoption of cycling in the US, in my opinion. I don't quite want to open up a discussion on what's going to bring about a sea-change, but having traveled to other countries where cycling is normalized into regular culture (France, Belgium, Switzerland, Netherlands), I have hopes that it can happen - at least in pockets, in the US. Living in Boulder, I feel I am in such a pocket, but I've still had some pretty close encounters, despite the fairly OK-ish cycling infrastructure, culture, and education.
noelwelsh 8y ago
If you haven't considered it already, a bike trailer is likely to be a cheaper alternative to a cargo bike. I've had a bike trailer for years. Mine is a Croozer 2. I transported my kids to nursery in it, and did supermarket runs etc. The tradeoff is it is an extra thing you have to worry about. It's much less convenient to park / lock-up than just the bike on its own. Regardless, I'm looking forward to getting it out when we more to a more bike-friendly place in a month.
- sharpercoder 8y ago
  A bike trailer has the dangerous property of not being in your peripheral vision. I personally would never transport kids in a bike trailer; I have seen my sister (her daughters) get into hurtful situations and potentially dangerous situations. Whenever you can spend more for a front-load cargobike, I would highly advise to do so.
  - Karrot_Kream 8y ago
    Would you suggest it for hauling inanimate objects? Does it handle well?
    - secabeen 8y ago
      If you're never going to haul kids, just get a utility trailer. They're much cheaper, probably because they don't have to be designed to protect humans.
  - cullenking 8y ago
    I'm a long term cyclist, run a cycling business, ride tons of bikes. I can definitely say the bike with a trailer is easier to ride, and is safer by far. Full harness, roll cage, head whiplash protection etc. Just putting this comment out there so other people reading see another perspective and don't dismiss trailers as unsafe. They are great!
    - sharpercoder 8y ago
rokhayakebe 8y ago
Re:Expensive I guess it is an opportunity to buy a few from China and start a rent-by-the-hour service.
- stevenwoo 8y ago
  This seems unlikely right now. Most major manufacturers of bicycles are in Taiwan and China (all brands around the world use them), but this is for bicycles built for a single person. Most of the frames are carbon fiber, a mold is built for various sizes and is used 1000's of times. For some reason cargo bikes are a different story and welded together from steel or aluminum (there might be a few carbon fiber ones, but I assume cost of r&d/manufacturing to be prohibitive to be competitive with metal for small lots). Alibaba has lots of generic bicycle frames but no cargo bikes.
deltateam 8y ago
Some banks in San Francisco offer bike loans, like car loans specifically tailored for this. There may be institutions near you that offer similar financing. With the right interest rate this would be cheaper than taking the bus.
jacquesm 8y ago
> 1.5 or 2 thousand dollars! There is such a thing as a second hand bike.
- brewdad 8y ago
  At least in the US, the cargo bike market is still tiny. There are very few used cargo bikes to be had and the likely purchaser of one is the type who will ride it for decades until it finally costs more to repair than it was ever worth in the first place.
  - jacquesm 8y ago
    The main reason cargo bikes are up for sale where I live is either because the kids get too big and have their own bikes or because the cargo bike ends up not being used after a spell of 'green thinking' and then people end up in bad weather or have a near miss with a car. (A near hit, according to Carlin.) The one I ended up buying needed some tightening up of the main support bearing for the box (the weak point in any cargo bike with three wheels), adjustment of the brakes and shifter cable and it needed new lights. Since then it's seen a year of heavy service and it still rolls along just fine (took it for a 30km spin just today with a lot of gear and two kids in it).
pantalaimon 8y ago
The city of Berlin currently has an initiative where they refund 33% of the purchase price for cargo bikes, but not more than 500€ for an unmotorised bike or 1000€ for an electric one. However the number of possible applications for this year has already been exhausted within the first couple of days of the program.

by kaitai 8y ago

Symbiote 8y ago

Check the resale value. In Denmark, cargo bikes hold their value very well in the second hand market.

TomK32 8y ago

yes, they are expensive, but once you have a cargo bike you can carry home a tig welder, alu pipes and all the other stuff to build a cargo bike :D No seriously, they are expensive but if you look at craigslist and similar, they keep their value if you take care of your bike. and regarding road safety, ride in the right tire-mark left by the cars. you'll be safe from dooring and cars have to slow down and change lanes to overtake you instead of squeezing through.

whatshisface 8y ago
>ride in the right tire-mark left by the cars. If you're going to do that, why not just ride in the center of the lane like a motorcycle?
- edoceo 8y ago
  The center of the lane is slick with oil drippings, especially after rain. Right side tire rut is visible in rear-view mirror.
- 1over137 8y ago
  Riding in the centre of a lane is illegal in many places.
  - bluejekyll 8y ago
    Where? In CA a cyclist has as much right to the road as a car. A mistake I often see cyclists make is to allow themselves to be stuck in a very narrow space between the center of the lane and the edge of the road/curb/parked cars. When the road is too narrow, and there isn’t a safe place for a car to pass you, it’s important to consume the space in a way that makes it obvious to cars that they should not attempt to pass you. Yes, there are some a-holes this pisses off because they had to slow down and lose 30 seconds of their day, but it’s far safer, and worth being honked at.
    - maxerickson 8y ago
      Michigan has a keep right except when necessary law. So you can take the lane to turn left or if you believe keeping right is dangerous, etc.
    - monkeywork 8y ago
      https://losangelesbicyclelaw.com/california-bicycle-laws-overview/ https://losangelesbicyclelaw.com/california-bicycle-laws-ove... "When there isn’t a bicycle lane, try to stay near the right curb. Unless you are moving faster than vehicle traffic, passing another bicycle, or making a left turn, you should typically stay close to the curb or road’s edge." http://www.calbike.org/bicycling_in_california_sharing_the_road http://www.calbike.org/bicycling_in_california_sharing_the_r... "The law says that people who ride bikes must ride as close to the right side of the road as practicable except under the following conditions: when passing, preparing for a left turn, avoiding hazards, if the lane is too narrow to share, or if approaching a place where a right turn is authorized."

1over137 8y ago

Expensive compared to a regular bike, but cheap compared to a car.

EpicEng 8y ago
Depends on your definition of "regular bike". I have a road bike and a MTB, both of which cost a fair bit more than this one.
justinator 8y ago
Cheaper to own once bought too, yes? No gas or insurance, parking tickets, etc. Get rid of your gym membership, too! Food bill may be slightly higher, but you can haul bags of rice by the 10kg bag!
- kzrdude 8y ago
  The stressful part is that bikes are easy to lose, they get stolen. I ride a €80 used bike for that reason.
  - justinator 8y ago
    I have somehow avoided this problem! I got rid of my car almost 15 years ago, and have been on bikes 100% of the time since then. I've had 0 bikes stolen. 9 countries ridden in, so far! The threat of getting hit by a car is the biggest hurtle of mass adoption of cycling in the US, in my opinion. I don't quite want to open up a discussion on what's going to bring about a sea-change, but having traveled to other countries where cycling is normalized into regular culture (France, Belgium, Switzerland, Netherlands), I have hopes that it can happen - at least in pockets, in the US. Living in Boulder, I feel I am in such a pocket, but I've still had some pretty close encounters, despite the fairly OK-ish cycling infrastructure, culture, and education.

noelwelsh 8y ago

If you haven't considered it already, a bike trailer is likely to be a cheaper alternative to a cargo bike. I've had a bike trailer for years. Mine is a Croozer 2. I transported my kids to nursery in it, and did supermarket runs etc. The tradeoff is it is an extra thing you have to worry about. It's much less convenient to park / lock-up than just the bike on its own. Regardless, I'm looking forward to getting it out when we more to a more bike-friendly place in a month.

sharpercoder 8y ago
A bike trailer has the dangerous property of not being in your peripheral vision. I personally would never transport kids in a bike trailer; I have seen my sister (her daughters) get into hurtful situations and potentially dangerous situations. Whenever you can spend more for a front-load cargobike, I would highly advise to do so.
- Karrot_Kream 8y ago
  Would you suggest it for hauling inanimate objects? Does it handle well?
  - secabeen 8y ago
    If you're never going to haul kids, just get a utility trailer. They're much cheaper, probably because they don't have to be designed to protect humans.
- cullenking 8y ago
  I'm a long term cyclist, run a cycling business, ride tons of bikes. I can definitely say the bike with a trailer is easier to ride, and is safer by far. Full harness, roll cage, head whiplash protection etc. Just putting this comment out there so other people reading see another perspective and don't dismiss trailers as unsafe. They are great!
  - sharpercoder 8y ago

rokhayakebe 8y ago

Re:Expensive I guess it is an opportunity to buy a few from China and start a rent-by-the-hour service.

stevenwoo 8y ago
This seems unlikely right now. Most major manufacturers of bicycles are in Taiwan and China (all brands around the world use them), but this is for bicycles built for a single person. Most of the frames are carbon fiber, a mold is built for various sizes and is used 1000's of times. For some reason cargo bikes are a different story and welded together from steel or aluminum (there might be a few carbon fiber ones, but I assume cost of r&d/manufacturing to be prohibitive to be competitive with metal for small lots). Alibaba has lots of generic bicycle frames but no cargo bikes.

deltateam 8y ago

Some banks in San Francisco offer bike loans, like car loans specifically tailored for this. There may be institutions near you that offer similar financing. With the right interest rate this would be cheaper than taking the bus.

jacquesm 8y ago

> 1.5 or 2 thousand dollars! There is such a thing as a second hand bike.

brewdad 8y ago
At least in the US, the cargo bike market is still tiny. There are very few used cargo bikes to be had and the likely purchaser of one is the type who will ride it for decades until it finally costs more to repair than it was ever worth in the first place.
- jacquesm 8y ago
  The main reason cargo bikes are up for sale where I live is either because the kids get too big and have their own bikes or because the cargo bike ends up not being used after a spell of 'green thinking' and then people end up in bad weather or have a near miss with a car. (A near hit, according to Carlin.) The one I ended up buying needed some tightening up of the main support bearing for the box (the weak point in any cargo bike with three wheels), adjustment of the brakes and shifter cable and it needed new lights. Since then it's seen a year of heavy service and it still rolls along just fine (took it for a 30km spin just today with a lot of gear and two kids in it).

pantalaimon 8y ago

The city of Berlin currently has an initiative where they refund 33% of the purchase price for cargo bikes, but not more than 500€ for an unmotorised bike or 1000€ for an electric one. However the number of possible applications for this year has already been exhausted within the first couple of days of the program.