5 ms·

Kratom is not an opioid... https://erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom_journal2.shtml https://erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom_journal2.shtml >By 1940 three alkalo

Kratom is not an opioid... https://erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom_journal2.shtml https://erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom_journal2.shtml >By 1940 three alkaloids in addition to mitragynine had definitely been characterized viz. mitraphylline from the bark of M. rubrostipulata (Michiels and Leroux 1925), rhynchophylline from the bark of M. stipulosa (Larrieu, 1930) and rotundifoline It does not contain any opiate alkaloids. It has zero morphine, thebane or codeine in it.

ryanmercer 8y ago
It binds to mu opioid receptors and the compounds are largely unstudied. So while maybe not technically an opioid, that doesn't magically mean it's good to go.
- ddingus 8y ago
  What it is, and what it does are two different things. Saw your edit.
  - baq 8y ago
    If it quacks like a duck and quacking is what matters...
    - ddingus 8y ago
      Either we respect the chemistry, or we don't. Kratom does not contain alkaloids from the opium family. Which is it? Secondly, classifying the overall effect of Kratom as opiate like is, frankly ignorant. There is some minor league overlap, but not enough to justify the current moves to ban. Now, that degree of overlap may well prove a reason to monetize. And that looks a lot like the dynamics of THC too. The conversation should be honest, and most of it really isn't on that front. That, coupled with uninformed discussion on effects, potentials, makes for far more negative impact on the public than is warranted. This attempt to frame kratom into schedule 1 or even 2, based on very shallow, mostly anecdotal, and or dishonest representations of danger, is deplorable. Rabid too, where potential monetization is concerned. We can and should do much better. That could start with the chemistry, and history, frankly. ...or not, and that path is hardly respectable. A young child quacking, when quacking matters, would be the analogy to break yours down, in simple terms.
throwaway_32498 8y ago
It's an opioid. (Or rather, contains opioids—more than one, by the way!) Every purported "non-addictive opioid substitute" in history has turned out to be an opioid. If it acts like an opioid and quacks like an opioid, assume it is one. > https://erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom_journal2.shtml https://erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom_journal2.shtml Try: https://erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?ID=7348 https://erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?ID=7348 (linked from https://erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom_basics.shtml https://erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom_basics.shtml)
- throwaway_32498 8y ago
  A deciding rule to tell whether some chemical or plant is an addictive opioid: if people are using it to "lessen their withdrawal symptoms from opioids".
- mgamache 8y ago
  >Every purported "non-addictive opioid substitute" in history has turned out to be an opioid. I thought Naloxone was non-addictive (and clearly an opioid)? Or am I misreading? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naloxone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naloxone
  - stordoff 8y ago
    Naloxone binds to the same receptors, but it is an antagonist, so has the opposite effect.
loeg 8y ago
It's not an opiate. It absolutely is an (or is made up of at least one) opioid.[0] > Opioids are substances that act on opioid receptors to produce morphine-like effects. > ... > Opioids include opiates, an older term that refers to such drugs derived from opium, including morphine itself. ... Opiate is properly limited to the natural alkaloids found in the resin of the opium poppy although some include semi-synthetic derivatives [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opioid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opioid

ryanmercer 8y ago

It binds to mu opioid receptors and the compounds are largely unstudied. So while maybe not technically an opioid, that doesn't magically mean it's good to go.

ddingus 8y ago
What it is, and what it does are two different things. Saw your edit.
- baq 8y ago
  If it quacks like a duck and quacking is what matters...
  - ddingus 8y ago
    Either we respect the chemistry, or we don't. Kratom does not contain alkaloids from the opium family. Which is it? Secondly, classifying the overall effect of Kratom as opiate like is, frankly ignorant. There is some minor league overlap, but not enough to justify the current moves to ban. Now, that degree of overlap may well prove a reason to monetize. And that looks a lot like the dynamics of THC too. The conversation should be honest, and most of it really isn't on that front. That, coupled with uninformed discussion on effects, potentials, makes for far more negative impact on the public than is warranted. This attempt to frame kratom into schedule 1 or even 2, based on very shallow, mostly anecdotal, and or dishonest representations of danger, is deplorable. Rabid too, where potential monetization is concerned. We can and should do much better. That could start with the chemistry, and history, frankly. ...or not, and that path is hardly respectable. A young child quacking, when quacking matters, would be the analogy to break yours down, in simple terms.

throwaway_32498 8y ago

It's an opioid. (Or rather, contains opioids—more than one, by the way!) Every purported "non-addictive opioid substitute" in history has turned out to be an opioid. If it acts like an opioid and quacks like an opioid, assume it is one. > https://erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom_journal2.shtml https://erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom_journal2.shtml Try: https://erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?ID=7348 https://erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?ID=7348 (linked from https://erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom_basics.shtml https://erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom_basics.shtml)

throwaway_32498 8y ago
A deciding rule to tell whether some chemical or plant is an addictive opioid: if people are using it to "lessen their withdrawal symptoms from opioids".
mgamache 8y ago
>Every purported "non-addictive opioid substitute" in history has turned out to be an opioid. I thought Naloxone was non-addictive (and clearly an opioid)? Or am I misreading? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naloxone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naloxone
- stordoff 8y ago
  Naloxone binds to the same receptors, but it is an antagonist, so has the opposite effect.

loeg 8y ago

It's not an opiate. It absolutely is an (or is made up of at least one) opioid.[0] > Opioids are substances that act on opioid receptors to produce morphine-like effects. > ... > Opioids include opiates, an older term that refers to such drugs derived from opium, including morphine itself. ... Opiate is properly limited to the natural alkaloids found in the resin of the opium poppy although some include semi-synthetic derivatives [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opioid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opioid