3 ms·

I am glad we agree that this VC fund is based on racial discrimination. I am upset that you find this acceptable, if not virtuous.

psergeant 8y ago
Sure, nobody enjoys seeing their relative privilege diminish.
- rich-and-poor 8y ago
  You find racial discrimination acceptable? Or also virtuous? Is it a good goal to strive for in 21st century society? Do you find virtue in breaking people up into racial and gendered groups, and then applying pre-calculated policies to "even them out"?
  - psergeant 8y ago
    > You find racial discrimination acceptable Clearly. > Is it a good goal etc It’s not a goal, it’s a tool to combat systemic racism. > Do you find virtue Here’s what I think: I think there’s no inherent genetic gender or race component that should impact outcomes in people’s relative success. If you believe there is, you are literally a racist or a sexist, by the very definitions of those terms. Given that, if you can predict a group of people’s outcomes based on their race or gender, there is an inequality of opportunity. I believe that the inequality of opportunity should be tackled. I believe that tackling this is an urgent issue. I believe that affirmative action — like setting up these funds — is a working solution.
  - jamescostian 8y ago
    The idea is that they were already broken up and artifically made uneven, so the point here is to go in reverse and as you said "even them out" I'd be interested in alternative solutions - what would you suggest? Keep in mind that not doing anything doesn't seem to fix these things.
    - rich-and-poor 8y ago
      > alternative solutions I'll give it a go. I first want to say something about the worldview required to do this sort of racial discrimination. There is no way of quantifying the relative advantages and disadvantages between identity groups. How much is one group oppressed over another? Suppose that a simple tax would suffice to even things out, exactly how much should that tax be? There is no way of knowing precisely what that tax should be. Our attempts to define oppression are never going to be rigorous. They'll always be vague, which I believe is dangerous, since it will be enforced by some large bureaucracy. We need definition, but there will never be definition accurate enough. Feel free to argue me on this, but I don't see how you can do it. Second, in separating people into these identity groups, you deny my individuality. Every time I speak, I speak as a member of my group, for my group. My actions are actions of and for my group, as well. With the world view taken here, I cannot speak or act without the presupposition that I'm doing it as a move in a power game between my identity group and other identity groups. Should we accept that a person's ethnicity and gender must always qualify their speech and actions? I agree that in conversation, one can observe the race and gender of the other person - but the merit of their words is still paramount. You may know that a book author is from Spain or Russia, but that does not affect how you read the book. However, in the worldview in which a racially discriminatory VC fund is socially acceptable, people are defined as members of groups among other groups, constantly vying for power and oppressing one another. Notice I'm not really going after the racially-discriminatory VC fund itself. I'm explaining the worldview in which the fund was conceived, and in which it is socially acceptable. It boils North America down from a melting pot of ambitious individuals trying to do great things with each other, into identity groups that are constantly holding power over, and suffering under the tyranny of, other identity groups. Obviously, the dominant narrative here is that white males are oppressing women of color founders. But you have no idea about the individual biases of the white males you're decrying. And you also have no idea whether or not they achieved funded status based on their competence. Yet you still assume the system is broken, and you still rob them of their individuality, still knowing nothing of their biases and nothing of their competence. > Keep in mind that not doing anything doesn't seem to fix these things. Why must we do something? Where is the evidence that people are not choosing to be founders of their free will? How can you be sure that the lack of founder diversity is evidence of a flaw in the system? I say that the system is operating in a very healthy manner. Efforts to move power to the disadvantaged that disregard individuality has had tragic, deadly results in history (China, Vietnam, USSR).
- rich-and-poor 8y ago
  It's interesting how shameless you are about your blatant racism.
  - psergeant 8y ago
    Turns out if you fallaciously conflate terms, you can call anyone anything you like.
    - yetanother1980 8y ago
      You are the one using a very strange and tortured definition. Neither racism nor sexism involve power structures they both involve discrimination on racial/ethnic/imagined or gender grounds. This is well established English language stop trying to redefine it.

psergeant 8y ago

Sure, nobody enjoys seeing their relative privilege diminish.

rich-and-poor 8y ago
You find racial discrimination acceptable? Or also virtuous? Is it a good goal to strive for in 21st century society? Do you find virtue in breaking people up into racial and gendered groups, and then applying pre-calculated policies to "even them out"?
- psergeant 8y ago
  > You find racial discrimination acceptable Clearly. > Is it a good goal etc It’s not a goal, it’s a tool to combat systemic racism. > Do you find virtue Here’s what I think: I think there’s no inherent genetic gender or race component that should impact outcomes in people’s relative success. If you believe there is, you are literally a racist or a sexist, by the very definitions of those terms. Given that, if you can predict a group of people’s outcomes based on their race or gender, there is an inequality of opportunity. I believe that the inequality of opportunity should be tackled. I believe that tackling this is an urgent issue. I believe that affirmative action — like setting up these funds — is a working solution.
- jamescostian 8y ago
  The idea is that they were already broken up and artifically made uneven, so the point here is to go in reverse and as you said "even them out" I'd be interested in alternative solutions - what would you suggest? Keep in mind that not doing anything doesn't seem to fix these things.
  - rich-and-poor 8y ago
    > alternative solutions I'll give it a go. I first want to say something about the worldview required to do this sort of racial discrimination. There is no way of quantifying the relative advantages and disadvantages between identity groups. How much is one group oppressed over another? Suppose that a simple tax would suffice to even things out, exactly how much should that tax be? There is no way of knowing precisely what that tax should be. Our attempts to define oppression are never going to be rigorous. They'll always be vague, which I believe is dangerous, since it will be enforced by some large bureaucracy. We need definition, but there will never be definition accurate enough. Feel free to argue me on this, but I don't see how you can do it. Second, in separating people into these identity groups, you deny my individuality. Every time I speak, I speak as a member of my group, for my group. My actions are actions of and for my group, as well. With the world view taken here, I cannot speak or act without the presupposition that I'm doing it as a move in a power game between my identity group and other identity groups. Should we accept that a person's ethnicity and gender must always qualify their speech and actions? I agree that in conversation, one can observe the race and gender of the other person - but the merit of their words is still paramount. You may know that a book author is from Spain or Russia, but that does not affect how you read the book. However, in the worldview in which a racially discriminatory VC fund is socially acceptable, people are defined as members of groups among other groups, constantly vying for power and oppressing one another. Notice I'm not really going after the racially-discriminatory VC fund itself. I'm explaining the worldview in which the fund was conceived, and in which it is socially acceptable. It boils North America down from a melting pot of ambitious individuals trying to do great things with each other, into identity groups that are constantly holding power over, and suffering under the tyranny of, other identity groups. Obviously, the dominant narrative here is that white males are oppressing women of color founders. But you have no idea about the individual biases of the white males you're decrying. And you also have no idea whether or not they achieved funded status based on their competence. Yet you still assume the system is broken, and you still rob them of their individuality, still knowing nothing of their biases and nothing of their competence. > Keep in mind that not doing anything doesn't seem to fix these things. Why must we do something? Where is the evidence that people are not choosing to be founders of their free will? How can you be sure that the lack of founder diversity is evidence of a flaw in the system? I say that the system is operating in a very healthy manner. Efforts to move power to the disadvantaged that disregard individuality has had tragic, deadly results in history (China, Vietnam, USSR).
rich-and-poor 8y ago
It's interesting how shameless you are about your blatant racism.
- psergeant 8y ago
  Turns out if you fallaciously conflate terms, you can call anyone anything you like.
  - yetanother1980 8y ago
    You are the one using a very strange and tortured definition. Neither racism nor sexism involve power structures they both involve discrimination on racial/ethnic/imagined or gender grounds. This is well established English language stop trying to redefine it.