6 ms·

The Lost Dogs of the Americas

66 points by dnetesn 8y ago

Navarr 8y ago
Isn't the Xoloitzcuintle a pre-contact dog?
- jjtheblunt 8y ago
  yes
  - dzdt 8y ago
    If you chase down the science paper (cough scihub cough) they tested various "native" breeds and found they were not genetically pre-contact.
- crazygringo 8y ago
  The modern Xoloitzcuintle appears to be a result of a mixture of the aboriginal, pre-Columbian Xoloitzcuintle, itself a descendant of a domesticated dog that came with the ancestors of indigenous Americans from Asia, with one or more southern European herding dog breeds during the Columbian Exchange. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Hairless_Dog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Hairless_Dog
magneticnorth 8y ago
I had thought there were a few pre-contact dog breeds in Mexico still? And they mention that one Carolina dog tested at 30% native, but maybe in error - I had also thought that Carolina dogs are partially descended from native American dogs. Did they test more than one?
jjtheblunt 8y ago
it's interesting to genotype using embarkdna.com (not affiliated with them, just a customer)
- replicatorblog 8y ago
  My firm is an investor in Embark (https://embarkvet.com/ https://embarkvet.com/), whichh is basically 23 & Me for Mastiffs. If you want to understand the delightful world of doggy DNA, there is no better destination.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - cityofdelusion 8y ago
    I hope these services can one day remove the one downside to pure breeds — inbred health issues. It would be amazing to have a near guarantee on dog temperament without, say, hip displasia.
- jjtheblunt 8y ago
  [ edit : embarkdna is what i wrote, but meant embarkvet. ]
ryanianian 8y ago
The history of wolf->dog domestication is fascinating because it's so closely tied with human-progression. Understanding ancient peoples through their interactions with domesticated animals is really humanizing. (I remember learning as a kid that ancient Egyptians raised and revered cats and being awe-struck that "ancient" Egyptians were actually modern humans not some un-relatable beings.) I read the article really hoping it would describe more of the characteristics of native/ancient American dogs. What kinds of "uses" did these ancient dogs have to their humans (hunting, tracking, pest-control, ...). How close to wolf versus corgi were they? (Asking somewhat rhetorically.)
- creep 8y ago
  >Understanding ancient peoples through their interactions with domesticated animals is really humanizing. YES. I'm not really a "dog person" (in the sense that I don't immediately take to them, for various reasons), but I've always thought of dogs like a sort of collective guardian species for humanity. They teach us cooperation, connect us with childlike play, and show us what love is supposed to look like. They serve their families with humility and respect-- but only if they are given the proper structural support to do so. It is really the most intimate, symbiotic relationship between species that I can think of. Humans don't just like dogs because they are a source of unconditional love-- humans like dogs because they are love-able unconditionally. It is almost selfless to love a dog. I feel similarly about cats. I think cats teach us what harmonious independence looks like. They teach us sensitivity-- because you can't just walk up to a cat and expect it to respond to your caress with instant gratitude. If you touch a cat in the wrong spot, it will let you know. If you don't learn the first two times, they may just burn that bridge with you. You have to watch each individual cat closely in order to figure out how you're supposed to interact with it. You have to test your ground with it, as it tests its ground with you. They will remind you to get a grip on your ego, or check yourself, as they are often tricksters and will use your weaknesses against you in order to have a bit of harmless fun-- so you learn how to navigate a strong personality, and how to laugh at life's chaos. Also with that last bit is that they teach you how to have respect, how to be submissive in a constructive way. You also learn to let live. They teach us that it's okay to assert ourselves, that we are allowed to roam by ourselves, and that resting is about being at peace without caveat. Lie down and go to sleep-- who cares if it's not the right time for someone else? Give yourself a break and rest.

66 points by dnetesn 8y ago

Navarr 8y ago

Isn't the Xoloitzcuintle a pre-contact dog?

jjtheblunt 8y ago
yes
- dzdt 8y ago
  If you chase down the science paper (cough scihub cough) they tested various "native" breeds and found they were not genetically pre-contact.
crazygringo 8y ago
The modern Xoloitzcuintle appears to be a result of a mixture of the aboriginal, pre-Columbian Xoloitzcuintle, itself a descendant of a domesticated dog that came with the ancestors of indigenous Americans from Asia, with one or more southern European herding dog breeds during the Columbian Exchange. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Hairless_Dog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Hairless_Dog

magneticnorth 8y ago

I had thought there were a few pre-contact dog breeds in Mexico still? And they mention that one Carolina dog tested at 30% native, but maybe in error - I had also thought that Carolina dogs are partially descended from native American dogs. Did they test more than one?

jjtheblunt 8y ago

it's interesting to genotype using embarkdna.com (not affiliated with them, just a customer)

replicatorblog 8y ago
My firm is an investor in Embark (https://embarkvet.com/ https://embarkvet.com/), whichh is basically 23 & Me for Mastiffs. If you want to understand the delightful world of doggy DNA, there is no better destination.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- cityofdelusion 8y ago
  I hope these services can one day remove the one downside to pure breeds — inbred health issues. It would be amazing to have a near guarantee on dog temperament without, say, hip displasia.
jjtheblunt 8y ago
[ edit : embarkdna is what i wrote, but meant embarkvet. ]

ryanianian 8y ago

The history of wolf->dog domestication is fascinating because it's so closely tied with human-progression. Understanding ancient peoples through their interactions with domesticated animals is really humanizing. (I remember learning as a kid that ancient Egyptians raised and revered cats and being awe-struck that "ancient" Egyptians were actually modern humans not some un-relatable beings.) I read the article really hoping it would describe more of the characteristics of native/ancient American dogs. What kinds of "uses" did these ancient dogs have to their humans (hunting, tracking, pest-control, ...). How close to wolf versus corgi were they? (Asking somewhat rhetorically.)

creep 8y ago
>Understanding ancient peoples through their interactions with domesticated animals is really humanizing. YES. I'm not really a "dog person" (in the sense that I don't immediately take to them, for various reasons), but I've always thought of dogs like a sort of collective guardian species for humanity. They teach us cooperation, connect us with childlike play, and show us what love is supposed to look like. They serve their families with humility and respect-- but only if they are given the proper structural support to do so. It is really the most intimate, symbiotic relationship between species that I can think of. Humans don't just like dogs because they are a source of unconditional love-- humans like dogs because they are love-able unconditionally. It is almost selfless to love a dog. I feel similarly about cats. I think cats teach us what harmonious independence looks like. They teach us sensitivity-- because you can't just walk up to a cat and expect it to respond to your caress with instant gratitude. If you touch a cat in the wrong spot, it will let you know. If you don't learn the first two times, they may just burn that bridge with you. You have to watch each individual cat closely in order to figure out how you're supposed to interact with it. You have to test your ground with it, as it tests its ground with you. They will remind you to get a grip on your ego, or check yourself, as they are often tricksters and will use your weaknesses against you in order to have a bit of harmless fun-- so you learn how to navigate a strong personality, and how to laugh at life's chaos. Also with that last bit is that they teach you how to have respect, how to be submissive in a constructive way. You also learn to let live. They teach us that it's okay to assert ourselves, that we are allowed to roam by ourselves, and that resting is about being at peace without caveat. Lie down and go to sleep-- who cares if it's not the right time for someone else? Give yourself a break and rest.