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I think that prototyping your software with (insert server side software ) and jquery is a really good way to prototype. It lets you get to market and or fail f

I think that prototyping your software with (insert server side software ) and jquery is a really good way to prototype. It lets you get to market and or fail faster .

emodendroket 8y ago
I think that quickly becomes untrue if you have any significant amount of front-end functionality.
- zitterbewegung 8y ago
  Can you expand on significant amount of front-end functionality ?
  - emodendroket 8y ago
    Writing jQuery to accomplish a feature like hiding one element if another is checked is significantly more code and more error-prone (not to mention difficult to test) than doing the equivalent thing with a tool like Angular is.
    - GordonS 8y ago
      It's 1 line with jQuery, so I guess "significantly more" is relative?
      - emodendroket 8y ago
        Alright, fair, you could just assign a toggle on click, but if the interaction is any more complex than that (check some other form value, see if multiple different boxes are checked, etc.) it's not.
      - _Tev 8y ago
        Every spaghetti ball starts with these one liners. Using just one line implies no structure or separation of concerns (needed for anything complex), which is why nobody is talking about this case, and immediately jumping to theoretical "SPA-like functionality, but implemented in jQuery". EDIT: as for your original question ("significant amount of FE functionality"), from my experience jQuery loses a lot of its appeal when you have over 1k lines of JS, and I guess over 5k JS frameworks (React, Ng, Ember, Vue) start to be significantly better. When over 10k jQuery would be crazy mess (I have seen one such project, it was fun trainwreck).
eropple 8y ago
Maybe for you. I write React and a web API (using Swagger in Ruby or TypeScript/NodeJS) significantly faster than I do any server-side framework I've ever used. React components are an easier way to frame HTML--here, let me not remember how Bootstrap elements are created and just invoke <Button>--and JSX is the most fluid and flexible templating system I've ever used. Dealing with stateful and rickety jQuery is why I stopped doing web stuff in the first place. Having React and a halfway decent dev environment in ES6/ES2017 and now TypeScript brought me back.
- wjossey 8y ago
  This is now my feeling as well, after coding in Vue for only 9 months. If I started a project tomorrow, I'd use Vue on day 0 100% of the time. Even if I'm just rendering HTML, the process of using it helps me to separate out my components and break them down into small and understandable pieces. I'm sure I'd get the same benefit from Ember, Angular, React, etc., if I knew those frameworks as well. My feeling is that I don't experience a startup tax with using a frontend framework, like Vue. To me, it's now as natural as using Rails on day 0.
  - andrei_says_ 8y ago
    I’ve used both Vue and Rails. Rails partials does meet my needs for compartmentalizing code. Don’t really see what benefit would I get for adding the complexity of separating the front end in its own layer. Turbolinks gives me the speed of an SPA and I get 5x the dev productivity by not adding one. And I absolutely love Vue. What am I missing?
    - wjossey 8y ago
      You're probably just not writing that much javascript, or needing javascript, so it sounds like you're not missing anything! I don't find using Vue adds complexity for me anymore, and I enjoy a lot of the benefits of it (component libraries, scoped styles). That might not be enough for you when you're working with mostly vanilla CRUD pages, so I totally get it. If your productivity goes down with Vue, then it should take a big reason to add it. For me, it at minimum is not net negative, and I'd say even for trivial pages it's a net positive.

I think that prototyping your software with (insert server side software ) and jquery is a really good way to prototype. It lets you get to market and or fail faster .

emodendroket 8y ago

I think that quickly becomes untrue if you have any significant amount of front-end functionality.

zitterbewegung 8y ago
Can you expand on significant amount of front-end functionality ?
- emodendroket 8y ago
  Writing jQuery to accomplish a feature like hiding one element if another is checked is significantly more code and more error-prone (not to mention difficult to test) than doing the equivalent thing with a tool like Angular is.
  - GordonS 8y ago
    It's 1 line with jQuery, so I guess "significantly more" is relative?
    - emodendroket 8y ago
      Alright, fair, you could just assign a toggle on click, but if the interaction is any more complex than that (check some other form value, see if multiple different boxes are checked, etc.) it's not.
    - _Tev 8y ago
      Every spaghetti ball starts with these one liners. Using just one line implies no structure or separation of concerns (needed for anything complex), which is why nobody is talking about this case, and immediately jumping to theoretical "SPA-like functionality, but implemented in jQuery". EDIT: as for your original question ("significant amount of FE functionality"), from my experience jQuery loses a lot of its appeal when you have over 1k lines of JS, and I guess over 5k JS frameworks (React, Ng, Ember, Vue) start to be significantly better. When over 10k jQuery would be crazy mess (I have seen one such project, it was fun trainwreck).

eropple 8y ago

Maybe for you. I write React and a web API (using Swagger in Ruby or TypeScript/NodeJS) significantly faster than I do any server-side framework I've ever used. React components are an easier way to frame HTML--here, let me not remember how Bootstrap elements are created and just invoke <Button>--and JSX is the most fluid and flexible templating system I've ever used. Dealing with stateful and rickety jQuery is why I stopped doing web stuff in the first place. Having React and a halfway decent dev environment in ES6/ES2017 and now TypeScript brought me back.

wjossey 8y ago
This is now my feeling as well, after coding in Vue for only 9 months. If I started a project tomorrow, I'd use Vue on day 0 100% of the time. Even if I'm just rendering HTML, the process of using it helps me to separate out my components and break them down into small and understandable pieces. I'm sure I'd get the same benefit from Ember, Angular, React, etc., if I knew those frameworks as well. My feeling is that I don't experience a startup tax with using a frontend framework, like Vue. To me, it's now as natural as using Rails on day 0.
- andrei_says_ 8y ago
  I’ve used both Vue and Rails. Rails partials does meet my needs for compartmentalizing code. Don’t really see what benefit would I get for adding the complexity of separating the front end in its own layer. Turbolinks gives me the speed of an SPA and I get 5x the dev productivity by not adding one. And I absolutely love Vue. What am I missing?
  - wjossey 8y ago
    You're probably just not writing that much javascript, or needing javascript, so it sounds like you're not missing anything! I don't find using Vue adds complexity for me anymore, and I enjoy a lot of the benefits of it (component libraries, scoped styles). That might not be enough for you when you're working with mostly vanilla CRUD pages, so I totally get it. If your productivity goes down with Vue, then it should take a big reason to add it. For me, it at minimum is not net negative, and I'd say even for trivial pages it's a net positive.