6 ms·

This is ridiculous. It all depends on the person and the job. Some people can work a lot more than others. Likewise, some jobs are less demanding than others.

This is ridiculous. It all depends on the person and the job. Some people can work a lot more than others. Likewise, some jobs are less demanding than others. This is just as bad as minimum wage laws. How do these people come up with such absurd laws?

sb8244 8y ago
Are you familiar with the working culture in Korea? I only spent a few months there but it became clear from what I heard from professionals and students that 60+ hour work week is the average. Sure some jobs may be more than that in a healthy market, but it didn't seem like it was healthy.
- miguelrochefort 8y ago
  I don't deny that there's a problem. I argue that the proposed solution is short-sighted and inadequate. What are the incentives for companies to decrease work hours?What are the incentives for people to work less? What should people do with their time that's more beneficial than working? What compromises will these people have to make now that they're earning less (assuming their overtime was paid)? How will the productivity of Korean companies be affected by this 25-40% drop in employee work time? Hopefully companies will realize that increased work hours have diminishing returns and/or invest in automation to cope with the lack of resources. Hopefully the government doesn't then introduce even sillier laws (such as taxing automation).
  - sb8244 8y ago
    The issue is largely cultural from my understanding. There is a "seniors in charge" mentality in Korea that causes workers to get in before their boss and leave after. This artificially increases the work day while probably not increasing productivity that much. I'm certainly not close to an expert in it, and I don't want to pretend to be, but I don't think the government can do much to solve the problem other than put caps in when it is as bad as it is. It's a deeply rooted cultural issue that I hope this will be a reason to stop.
    - miguelrochefort 8y ago
      I can think of other ridiculous solutions to the problem you described: - Prevent employees from knowing when the boss comes in and leaves. - Force the boss to work fewer hours. - Force employees to arrive after their boss and/or leave before their boss. - Force employees to work X hours less than their boss. - Force employees to take long breaks in the middle of the day. - Remove bosses altogether. I don't see how limiting the work week to 52 hours will solve that. Will the boss show up later and/or leave sooner? If so, are employees be expected to guess the new schedule of their boss? Won't they still show up before and leave after their boss, and just take more breaks during the day and/or not report all their work time? I unfortunately suspect that employees will have more unpaid hours than they did before.
yongjik 8y ago
> How do these people come up with such absurd laws? 52 hours per week is 7.5 hours every day, including weekends, or 10.4 hours every day assuming you work Mon-Fri. If the society (or the mythical free market) could regulate itself so that people don't have to work this crazy hours to earn living, we wouldn't have this "absurd" law. Unfortunately, the South Korean society has failed to regulate itself. Hence the law. The very fact that some pundits and employers are crying loudly shows why this law was necessary. You know, when you go to any restaurant (in the US), "Maximum Occupancy 140" signs look just as absurd. What will happen when the 141st patron walks in? Will the building crumble down or what? ...Except that these regulations were written with people's blood.
- miguelrochefort 8y ago
  If Koreans really want to work less, then some company would reduce the work week to 40 hours and get flooded with all of Korea's best employees. The fact that this hasn't happened means that something else is preventing the market from regulating itself. Perhaps people prefer to work longer hours and possibly earn more. Perhaps the market is very competitive and this is the only way to stay relevant. Perhaps something makes it difficult for companies to hire more employees. Perhaps Korean people can work 68 hours with little diminishing return. Perhaps the taxes are too high. I don't know.
  - yongjik 8y ago
    > If Koreans really want to work less, then some company would reduce the work week to 40 hours and ... ... another big company that deals with them will call them on 5 pm Friday, request an extra shipment by 10 am next Monday, get angry ("What do you mean? Weekend? Do I look like your friend?") and cancel the deal. The company goes bankrupt. You don't know much about Korean work culture, do you.
  - pgeorgi 8y ago
    Few countries have the workplace mobility required for such an experiment to work: There are countries where the social expectation is that you start in a company as an intern or apprentice and leave it to retire some 45 years later.
swfsql 8y ago
>How do these people come up with such absurd laws? This is an interesting question. How they come up with, get agreement on it and get support on it by the population? The problem is certainly democracy, where people think that interventionism will ever do any good. This is probably because they can't foresee any firm life improvement for the future (due to interventions already made on the market -- e.g. central banking+inflation), and given the lack of economic understanding, they embrace such ideas. The endless battle of interventionism solving the problems of interventionism, and so the state (bureocrat's power) keeps growing. Such interventions would probably be a net-profit for corporations who already invested in mechanizing/automating some jobs, and their potential competitors would get a disadvantage from the new law, so they get to charge a higher price than they would otherwise. This is usually true for specific/specialized interventions, but a generalized on such this, this is unlikely.

sb8244 8y ago

Are you familiar with the working culture in Korea? I only spent a few months there but it became clear from what I heard from professionals and students that 60+ hour work week is the average. Sure some jobs may be more than that in a healthy market, but it didn't seem like it was healthy.

miguelrochefort 8y ago
I don't deny that there's a problem. I argue that the proposed solution is short-sighted and inadequate. What are the incentives for companies to decrease work hours?What are the incentives for people to work less? What should people do with their time that's more beneficial than working? What compromises will these people have to make now that they're earning less (assuming their overtime was paid)? How will the productivity of Korean companies be affected by this 25-40% drop in employee work time? Hopefully companies will realize that increased work hours have diminishing returns and/or invest in automation to cope with the lack of resources. Hopefully the government doesn't then introduce even sillier laws (such as taxing automation).
- sb8244 8y ago
  The issue is largely cultural from my understanding. There is a "seniors in charge" mentality in Korea that causes workers to get in before their boss and leave after. This artificially increases the work day while probably not increasing productivity that much. I'm certainly not close to an expert in it, and I don't want to pretend to be, but I don't think the government can do much to solve the problem other than put caps in when it is as bad as it is. It's a deeply rooted cultural issue that I hope this will be a reason to stop.
  - miguelrochefort 8y ago
    I can think of other ridiculous solutions to the problem you described: - Prevent employees from knowing when the boss comes in and leaves. - Force the boss to work fewer hours. - Force employees to arrive after their boss and/or leave before their boss. - Force employees to work X hours less than their boss. - Force employees to take long breaks in the middle of the day. - Remove bosses altogether. I don't see how limiting the work week to 52 hours will solve that. Will the boss show up later and/or leave sooner? If so, are employees be expected to guess the new schedule of their boss? Won't they still show up before and leave after their boss, and just take more breaks during the day and/or not report all their work time? I unfortunately suspect that employees will have more unpaid hours than they did before.

yongjik 8y ago

> How do these people come up with such absurd laws? 52 hours per week is 7.5 hours every day, including weekends, or 10.4 hours every day assuming you work Mon-Fri. If the society (or the mythical free market) could regulate itself so that people don't have to work this crazy hours to earn living, we wouldn't have this "absurd" law. Unfortunately, the South Korean society has failed to regulate itself. Hence the law. The very fact that some pundits and employers are crying loudly shows why this law was necessary. You know, when you go to any restaurant (in the US), "Maximum Occupancy 140" signs look just as absurd. What will happen when the 141st patron walks in? Will the building crumble down or what? ...Except that these regulations were written with people's blood.

miguelrochefort 8y ago
If Koreans really want to work less, then some company would reduce the work week to 40 hours and get flooded with all of Korea's best employees. The fact that this hasn't happened means that something else is preventing the market from regulating itself. Perhaps people prefer to work longer hours and possibly earn more. Perhaps the market is very competitive and this is the only way to stay relevant. Perhaps something makes it difficult for companies to hire more employees. Perhaps Korean people can work 68 hours with little diminishing return. Perhaps the taxes are too high. I don't know.
- yongjik 8y ago
  > If Koreans really want to work less, then some company would reduce the work week to 40 hours and ... ... another big company that deals with them will call them on 5 pm Friday, request an extra shipment by 10 am next Monday, get angry ("What do you mean? Weekend? Do I look like your friend?") and cancel the deal. The company goes bankrupt. You don't know much about Korean work culture, do you.
- pgeorgi 8y ago
  Few countries have the workplace mobility required for such an experiment to work: There are countries where the social expectation is that you start in a company as an intern or apprentice and leave it to retire some 45 years later.

swfsql 8y ago

>How do these people come up with such absurd laws? This is an interesting question. How they come up with, get agreement on it and get support on it by the population? The problem is certainly democracy, where people think that interventionism will ever do any good. This is probably because they can't foresee any firm life improvement for the future (due to interventions already made on the market -- e.g. central banking+inflation), and given the lack of economic understanding, they embrace such ideas. The endless battle of interventionism solving the problems of interventionism, and so the state (bureocrat's power) keeps growing. Such interventions would probably be a net-profit for corporations who already invested in mechanizing/automating some jobs, and their potential competitors would get a disadvantage from the new law, so they get to charge a higher price than they would otherwise. This is usually true for specific/specialized interventions, but a generalized on such this, this is unlikely.