4 ms·

Doesn't seem like much of a paradox. By definition, people who immigrate are: --smarter --wealthier --better educated --more ambitious. take-charge people th

Doesn't seem like much of a paradox. By definition, people who immigrate are: --smarter --wealthier --better educated --more ambitious. take-charge people than the general population. These are people who have taken the initiate to uproot themselves from their current NATION, leave everything behind, and negotiate a difficult and expensive immigration process. These are people that are deemed worthy in the receiving nation: people who have advanced degrees or other skills, for instance (legally immigrating to another country is basically impossible if you are a ditch-digger). Why wouldn't these kids do well, as a rule? Their parents are people who valued education and who would enforce that in their kids. And then in the second and succeeding generations, the effect disappears.

lmkg 16y ago
In other words, this paradox is a special case of Regression Toward the Mean. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_toward_the_mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_toward_the_mean
sinamdar 16y ago
I wonder why this effect wanes off over future generations. If Immigrant parents are able to instill the value of education, hard work etc. in their children; why are these children unable to instill the same in the future generations? I believe that parents are the first teachers of parenting for their children. So what causes the message to get lost?
- kiba 16y ago
  I heard most family fortune are lost within three generations. Perhaps there is something that connect to your question too.
billybob 16y ago
"--smarter --wealthier --better educated " You're talking about legal immigrants, right? Because I would think it's the opposite with illegals. If you don't have much education or status in Mexico, for example, you might be tempted to cross the border to the US; if you're rich and established, probably not. I spent a semester studying in Guadalajara and was shocked at the snooty attitudes of students at the private Mexican college I attended, and the Porche and Lexus dealerships nearby. Of course, a short bus ride away, I met kids who went hungry and lived in concrete houses with dirt floors. We definitely get a biased sample of the Mexican population in our immigrants, but I think it's biased away from education and money. On the other hand, if those first-generation kids are in school, it's because they WANT to be there. It's hard, and they could be making money working. Whereas the next generation may take things for granted, like the rest of us Americans. I dunno - you can explain anything after the fact, so it's hard to say what the reason is for this finding.
- wazoox 16y ago
  > You're talking about legal immigrants, right? Because I would think it's the opposite with illegals. It depends. It may be true for immigrants coming from the nearby country (Mexico to US), but it isn't true for instance for illegals from Africa going to Europe: they must have a lot of money to pay for the travel through the continent (10000 to 20000 euros or even more). This has a very bad effect on their countries of origin : both the best people and their money flow out to richer countries.
bengebre 16y ago
I think the tendencies you're pointing out are anecdotally accurate occasionally, but they are in no way "by definition" from immigrate or immigrants.
anigbrowl 16y ago
By definition, people who immigrate are: --smarter --wealthier --better educated --more ambitious. take-charge people Immigrant here, and I don't agree at all. there are such people, and every host country hopes to attract more of them for the potential economic boost, but it's hardly a foregone conclusion. Some immigrants just went on a date with another person and romance blossomed. Some countries have a far simpler immigration process than the US...probably most of them, in fact, nor does they necessarily exclude ditch diggers, even if they don't encourage them. Some people are refugees and immigrate elsewhere through no desire of their own. I would say about the only common traits that all immigrants have in common are slightly greater risk tolerance and adaptivity, the requirements for trying out a completely different environment, or even considering it as a possible alternative in the first place. Other things you mention might give them strong views on education, but that might just as easily be a reflection of educational norms where they grew up.

lmkg 16y ago

In other words, this paradox is a special case of Regression Toward the Mean. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_toward_the_mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_toward_the_mean

sinamdar 16y ago

I wonder why this effect wanes off over future generations. If Immigrant parents are able to instill the value of education, hard work etc. in their children; why are these children unable to instill the same in the future generations? I believe that parents are the first teachers of parenting for their children. So what causes the message to get lost?

kiba 16y ago
I heard most family fortune are lost within three generations. Perhaps there is something that connect to your question too.

billybob 16y ago

"--smarter --wealthier --better educated " You're talking about legal immigrants, right? Because I would think it's the opposite with illegals. If you don't have much education or status in Mexico, for example, you might be tempted to cross the border to the US; if you're rich and established, probably not. I spent a semester studying in Guadalajara and was shocked at the snooty attitudes of students at the private Mexican college I attended, and the Porche and Lexus dealerships nearby. Of course, a short bus ride away, I met kids who went hungry and lived in concrete houses with dirt floors. We definitely get a biased sample of the Mexican population in our immigrants, but I think it's biased away from education and money. On the other hand, if those first-generation kids are in school, it's because they WANT to be there. It's hard, and they could be making money working. Whereas the next generation may take things for granted, like the rest of us Americans. I dunno - you can explain anything after the fact, so it's hard to say what the reason is for this finding.

wazoox 16y ago
> You're talking about legal immigrants, right? Because I would think it's the opposite with illegals. It depends. It may be true for immigrants coming from the nearby country (Mexico to US), but it isn't true for instance for illegals from Africa going to Europe: they must have a lot of money to pay for the travel through the continent (10000 to 20000 euros or even more). This has a very bad effect on their countries of origin : both the best people and their money flow out to richer countries.

bengebre 16y ago

I think the tendencies you're pointing out are anecdotally accurate occasionally, but they are in no way "by definition" from immigrate or immigrants.

anigbrowl 16y ago

By definition, people who immigrate are: --smarter --wealthier --better educated --more ambitious. take-charge people Immigrant here, and I don't agree at all. there are such people, and every host country hopes to attract more of them for the potential economic boost, but it's hardly a foregone conclusion. Some immigrants just went on a date with another person and romance blossomed. Some countries have a far simpler immigration process than the US...probably most of them, in fact, nor does they necessarily exclude ditch diggers, even if they don't encourage them. Some people are refugees and immigrate elsewhere through no desire of their own. I would say about the only common traits that all immigrants have in common are slightly greater risk tolerance and adaptivity, the requirements for trying out a completely different environment, or even considering it as a possible alternative in the first place. Other things you mention might give them strong views on education, but that might just as easily be a reflection of educational norms where they grew up.