6 ms·

Elon Musk making “kid-sized submarine” to rescue teens in Thailand cave

41 points by weeber 8y ago

itronitron 8y ago
I wonder if they could run a long tube through the water that would be waterproof and through which the boys could be pulled or crawl
- maxbond 8y ago
  If that tube sprang a leak, anywhere along it's ~2km length, they would have nowhere to run. They are having trouble just getting divers and air to and from their location, engineering & installing such a passage on a short timetable doesn't seem realistic.
  - GW150914 8y ago
    This isn’t an exercise in rescuing children or building a submersible for Musk, it’s an exercise in PR. The best that can be said is at least he’s not doing any harm. Designing, building, and deploying a sub for such a challenging environment, to be used by kids who don’t even drive a car is a bad joke designed to create media buzz like this article. Even if they run the O2 line in, and that’s proving difficult, one more good rainstorm and this is over, and reports talk about a brewing storm. It’s going to be risky, but their only realistic chance barring lots of luck, is SCUBA. That will not be easy, but at least it’s a chance. A highly technical dive with three tank swaps for a bunch of weak, terrified kids who have never dived before is a nightmare. I really hope they make it, but it’s hard to be optimistic here.
    - maxbond 8y ago
      I'm also wary of Musk's involvement. Lately I've seen a lot of stories about him over promising and cutting corners on safety to meet the goals, such as the recent story about removing a break test from the Model 3 [1] (presumably to meet the 5k/mo production goal) or the accidents directly attributable to Autopilot (slamming into a concrete divider while merging, hitting stationary cars while parking, etc - all of which may have been prevented by LIDAR. I'm logging off soon & don't have time to cite these, apologies.). [1] http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-elon-musk-orders-engineers-to-stop-brake-and-roll-testing-2018-6 http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-elon-musk-orders-engine... Edit: More than Musk's involvement I think we share trepidation about how he is perceived by the media and even by people on HN (though I won't name names). I'm tired of seeing Musk portrayed as a superhero, and anyone who wants his companies to succeed should be, too. There is a popular narrative that the whole company is on his shoulders - as if he wasn't employing a team of engineers - and that he is going to personally deliver our species from peril. Those massive expectations can only precede massive disappointment, and such a careful cultivation of a superhero persona makes me wonder if he's trying to distract us from something rotten.
    - stretchwithme 8y ago
      Who says the kids will have to operate the sub? They can probably just pull it through.
- ColinWright 8y ago
  From the article: Musk says he's continuing to work on his earlier idea: an "inflatable tube with airlocks" that could be inflated inside the submerged portions of the tube, creating a tunnel the kids could crawl through. That sounds like exactly what you describe.
  - squarefoot 8y ago
    For that to work the tube should be incredibly strong because any small crack would let water in at high pressure. If those kids can dive, why not a much smaller but sturdier tube carrying air at high pressure and electricity, then every say 5 meters or less put a regulator and some LEDs to light the surroundings. IT should appear as a very long rope they could slowly follow stopping at every regulator to take breaths. Also, both air pressure and electricity could be used to make the "head" of the tube move towards the end of the tunnel just like pipe inspection robots do, though in this case they should account for a very irregular pipe.
kirubakaran 8y ago
Damn, he IS Iron Man.
- ocdtrekkie 8y ago
  You can call him Iron Man if he succeeds. I have doubts when someone claims they can build a submarine in eight hours.
  - duffmancd 8y ago
    Have you seen the episode of Scrapheap challenge/Junkyard wars where they did just that (in a shed, with a pile of scraps!) [1]? However they made "wet" subs rather than dry, and nothing required to last 2km of travel, which reduces the challenge quite a bit (to say the least). [1] http://www.the-nerds.org/submarine-design-notes.html http://www.the-nerds.org/submarine-design-notes.html
  - stretchwithme 8y ago
    Even Iron Man doesn't succeed every time. But he does step up.
Waterluvian 8y ago
If this is just a marketing ploy and anything happens to the kids, I think he will be damned for a long time. But I really hope there's something they can do. I'm just skeptical whatever they throw together will be adopted by the Thai navy, who is imagine prefers to stick to their training and core competencies.
- TrevorJ 8y ago
  Elon seems like he's been very willing to put his money where his mouth is to try to do things that he thinks will make the planet better. I very much doubt this is being done for marketing.
etrevino 8y ago
Isn't this just going to end up being an air-filled capsule steered by divers? Not that that's a bad thing, mind you, so long as it works.
sschueller 8y ago
I am disturbed by how he is using this situation for his own ego. The proper way to help is not via Twitter. Even more disturbing is his fan base. Maybe his submarine idea would work but at what risk? There are people on site who have far more experience with these situations especially the two British cave divers who found them. He could put his money to better use and work with them instead of armchairing some plausible solution.
guard0g 8y ago
5 rescue pods already being flown out by SpaceX: http://www.times-standard.com/general-news/20180706/wing-inflatables-assisting-with-thai-soccer-team-rescue http://www.times-standard.com/general-news/20180706/wing-inf...
maxerickson 8y ago
Also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17481249 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17481249 .

41 points by weeber 8y ago

I wonder if they could run a long tube through the water that would be waterproof and through which the boys could be pulled or crawl

maxbond 8y ago
If that tube sprang a leak, anywhere along it's ~2km length, they would have nowhere to run. They are having trouble just getting divers and air to and from their location, engineering & installing such a passage on a short timetable doesn't seem realistic.
- GW150914 8y ago
  This isn’t an exercise in rescuing children or building a submersible for Musk, it’s an exercise in PR. The best that can be said is at least he’s not doing any harm. Designing, building, and deploying a sub for such a challenging environment, to be used by kids who don’t even drive a car is a bad joke designed to create media buzz like this article. Even if they run the O2 line in, and that’s proving difficult, one more good rainstorm and this is over, and reports talk about a brewing storm. It’s going to be risky, but their only realistic chance barring lots of luck, is SCUBA. That will not be easy, but at least it’s a chance. A highly technical dive with three tank swaps for a bunch of weak, terrified kids who have never dived before is a nightmare. I really hope they make it, but it’s hard to be optimistic here.
  - maxbond 8y ago
    I'm also wary of Musk's involvement. Lately I've seen a lot of stories about him over promising and cutting corners on safety to meet the goals, such as the recent story about removing a break test from the Model 3 [1] (presumably to meet the 5k/mo production goal) or the accidents directly attributable to Autopilot (slamming into a concrete divider while merging, hitting stationary cars while parking, etc - all of which may have been prevented by LIDAR. I'm logging off soon & don't have time to cite these, apologies.). [1] http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-elon-musk-orders-engineers-to-stop-brake-and-roll-testing-2018-6 http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-elon-musk-orders-engine... Edit: More than Musk's involvement I think we share trepidation about how he is perceived by the media and even by people on HN (though I won't name names). I'm tired of seeing Musk portrayed as a superhero, and anyone who wants his companies to succeed should be, too. There is a popular narrative that the whole company is on his shoulders - as if he wasn't employing a team of engineers - and that he is going to personally deliver our species from peril. Those massive expectations can only precede massive disappointment, and such a careful cultivation of a superhero persona makes me wonder if he's trying to distract us from something rotten.
  - stretchwithme 8y ago
    Who says the kids will have to operate the sub? They can probably just pull it through.
ColinWright 8y ago
From the article: Musk says he's continuing to work on his earlier idea: an "inflatable tube with airlocks" that could be inflated inside the submerged portions of the tube, creating a tunnel the kids could crawl through. That sounds like exactly what you describe.
- squarefoot 8y ago
  For that to work the tube should be incredibly strong because any small crack would let water in at high pressure. If those kids can dive, why not a much smaller but sturdier tube carrying air at high pressure and electricity, then every say 5 meters or less put a regulator and some LEDs to light the surroundings. IT should appear as a very long rope they could slowly follow stopping at every regulator to take breaths. Also, both air pressure and electricity could be used to make the "head" of the tube move towards the end of the tunnel just like pipe inspection robots do, though in this case they should account for a very irregular pipe.

kirubakaran 8y ago

Damn, he IS Iron Man.

ocdtrekkie 8y ago
You can call him Iron Man if he succeeds. I have doubts when someone claims they can build a submarine in eight hours.
- duffmancd 8y ago
  Have you seen the episode of Scrapheap challenge/Junkyard wars where they did just that (in a shed, with a pile of scraps!) [1]? However they made "wet" subs rather than dry, and nothing required to last 2km of travel, which reduces the challenge quite a bit (to say the least). [1] http://www.the-nerds.org/submarine-design-notes.html http://www.the-nerds.org/submarine-design-notes.html
- stretchwithme 8y ago
  Even Iron Man doesn't succeed every time. But he does step up.

Waterluvian 8y ago

If this is just a marketing ploy and anything happens to the kids, I think he will be damned for a long time. But I really hope there's something they can do. I'm just skeptical whatever they throw together will be adopted by the Thai navy, who is imagine prefers to stick to their training and core competencies.

TrevorJ 8y ago
Elon seems like he's been very willing to put his money where his mouth is to try to do things that he thinks will make the planet better. I very much doubt this is being done for marketing.

etrevino 8y ago

Isn't this just going to end up being an air-filled capsule steered by divers? Not that that's a bad thing, mind you, so long as it works.

sschueller 8y ago

I am disturbed by how he is using this situation for his own ego. The proper way to help is not via Twitter. Even more disturbing is his fan base. Maybe his submarine idea would work but at what risk? There are people on site who have far more experience with these situations especially the two British cave divers who found them. He could put his money to better use and work with them instead of armchairing some plausible solution.

guard0g 8y ago

5 rescue pods already being flown out by SpaceX: http://www.times-standard.com/general-news/20180706/wing-inflatables-assisting-with-thai-soccer-team-rescue http://www.times-standard.com/general-news/20180706/wing-inf...

maxerickson 8y ago

Also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17481249 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17481249 .