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Research shows the difference between emotional and informational support
- mturmon 8y agoThe problem of offering solutions when what is wanted is emotional support is especially easy for engineers and other problem-solvers to fall into.
- gedy 8y agoThis "problem" goes both ways - many people get very stressed and depressed when listening to someone just "needing to vent" and who does not want/need solutions.
- wavefunction 8y agoYou're ignoring that the solution is to listen and absorb and not offer some way to 'fix' the issue. It seems like a solution-oriented individual should feel comfortable offering that solution.
- gedy 8y agoAnd perhaps you're ignoring that some people give emotional support by analyzing and offering some way to fix the issue? Many people when they don't care, they wouldn't bother trying.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- greenhatman 8y agoI'm solidly in the camp of "change what you can and accept what you can't." I don't want moaning about things that I can't change.
- colanderman 8y agoOr the "solution" is for people who have issues but don't want help fixing them not to vent to people who don't have the patience for that. Listening to woe -- especially woe stemming from problems with easy solutions -- is emotionally draining. Like the GP said, it's a two-way street. Understand your friends and loved ones and compromise.
- steve_musk 8y agoIn a lot of cases the person complaining is usually a loved one.
- colanderman 8y agoSo is the person one is complaining to. If the person you habitually complain to consistently offers informational rather than emotional support, it's likely that they do so because they lack the capacity to simply absorb your emotional outporing. Consider that, regardless of how much they care for you, they may not be capable of significantly developing this ability. If that is the case, the advice the article offers is unhelpful, and the relationship would be better served by the complainer finding another outlet for their emotional stress, or learning to accept well-intentioned advice.
- wavefunction 8y agoAgain I think you're ignoring the actual solution. Relationships are not 50/50 compromises. They're a dance of compromises in favor of one party or another at different times. You've got to decide as an individual if the balance is acceptable and I can't say that you seem very giving from your posts. Again, that's a choice and your right but don't expect reality to conform to your desires because it rarely will.
- colanderman 8y agoAnd I could say the same for your posts, which posit a single problem and solution ("the actual solution" -- lol!) as if that is what they are. I'm the one who pointed out the ridiculousness of favoring one personality by default and suggested that compromise and understanding your partner is the name of the game -- and you dare say I'm unaccommodating? Exactly as you said, relationships are a complex negotiation. Claiming that inability to simply sit and listen to solvable troubles is "the problem" is unhelpful. It is SOMETIMES the problem -- probably more often than not -- but sometimes people just whine too much and are too full of themselves to accept much needed help and it's unhelpful to blame the listener for not wanting to sit through that emotionally draining experience every day of their life.
- dwaltrip 8y agoThat's a problem they can work on. Mindfulness meditation and practicing empathy have helped me. I understand the impulse. It's very tempting. I've certainly fallen into that response many times. And of course, sometimes the person is receptive to advice, and then it is a great feeling to offer whatever insight you can.
- colanderman 8y agoYou say that like the inability to be an emotional sponge is the only "problem" here. Can't mindfulness and meditation also help people who feel the need to vent about problems they aren't willing to hear solutions for?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- dwaltrip 8y agoVenting and seeking understanding from others are normal human experiences. Of course, all things can be taken too far or done excessively. A healthy balance is important. Providing emotional support when it is reasonably needed and when one has the energy to do so seems like a valuable way to have generally beneficial interactions with other people. Some naturally have more energy for this than others. But it is a skill than can be worked on like any other. And also, as one better understands the value of this type of support, it becomes more rewarding and easier to provide it.
- noobhacker 8y agoI used to get stressed listening. Now I just re-frame the problem to solve as "making the other person feel better" -- this way I don't feel the urge to offer solutions. As engineers and problem solvers, we should know how to define the problem properly.
- extra88 8y agoI’m okay with just listening, I can avoid problem-solving, though it helps to be given some cue to avoid it. I have a much harder time with being expected to say something that’s not problem-solving but still somehow helpful; it’s like the problem has been handed over to me but I’m denied the tools to do something about it.
- colanderman 8y agoYep. My tools for handling negative emotion are those of problem solving. If someone wants me to give any emotional thought to their issues -- that is, anything more than an expressionless "that sucks" -- then it's going to involve me thinking of solutions for the problem at hand. To deny me that is to force me to struggle with a difficult emotion I can't process for hours or days. (To be clear -- I am glad to do that, when the problem doesn't have a solution! Death of a loved one, annoying co-workers, etc.)
- obelix_ 8y agoThis where I tell couples "it takes a village". In a healthy working "village" there is always someone around who will compensate for weaknesses in both partners that aren't easy to fix. Modern couples have this highly misguided notion that between themselves they can work their way through complex things they aren't trained to handle. The larger their support group (parents, in laws, family, kids, friends) the better the outcomes.
- mpweiher 8y agoRight. Using (abusing) someone as an emotional spit-bucket is certainly no more, and arguably less, considerate than offering solutions to problems. Particularly in the "repeat" case. If the problem is so unimportant that you are not interested in solving it, then it is also not important enough for me to listen to you bitching about it. I also find it at least odd how this constructive approach is so commonly viewed as negative, whereas wallowing in self-pity and dragging others down with you somehow as emotionally mature. It's not. And some newer, less prejudiced research has actually shown that men's coping strategies have better outcomes in terms of psychological health. So the advice often given to "support" people in their self-destructive behavior is actively harmful.
- jblow 8y agoYes. This is all so obvious that I wonder why societally we have such a hard time seeing it ... i.e. what are we getting in return for the obvious willful ignorance we are engaging in.
- pvg 8y agoPretty sure 'problem solvers and engineers' is not quite the correct category of people who run into this.
- epx 8y agoRemembers me what happens when I have patience to talk a minute with a beggar. Ask where he comes from, this kind of chit-chat. The initial money request is often forgotten. People really want to be noted, acknowledged they exist, and heard. Food for the soul is almost more important than physical food.
- oska 8y agoA guy who was homeless for 25 years in Australia (and who recently wrote a book about his experiences) agrees very strongly with what you're saying: > I was recently asked by someone what they should do when they come across a homeless person. My response to this question is quite simple. Maybe you cannot make a difference to that person’s circumstance, but you can make a difference to how you see them. Many are hurting with the shame and stigma of being homeless. Don’t pretend they don’t exist: they are people too. [1] [1] https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jun/25/after-25-years-of-being-homeless-i-learned-theres-one-simple-thing-you-can-do-to-help-gregory-p-smith https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jun/25/after-25-years...
- ajeet_dhaliwal 8y agoCelebrating a ten year anniversary with my wife next week. I’m happy to report I have learned to change my behavior in this respect over the years. I listen now rather than do what I did before: receive input, analyze, identify issues, formulate potential solutions and offer options and resolutions. It’s actually so much more relaxing for me too.
- craftyguy 8y agoWhat you described is offering informational support.
- jv22222 8y agoI the op missed a "than" in the sentence and what they mean is they only listen and do not do those other things. i.e: "now rather <than> input"
- ajeet_dhaliwal 8y agoThank you, fixed it.
- craftyguy 8y agoYep, and now my comment based on GP's comment before edit (done after my comment) dies in a fire. Such is the HN way.
- hutzlibu 8y agoHave some upvotes then ... btw. is a Upvote informational or emotional Support? I think, both?
- syspec 8y agoi believe they meant: i listen now, rather than
- tedmiston 8y agoThis is all too real for me too. I have commonly made the mistake of offering solutions in response to discussion of the girlfriend's problems when in reality most of the time she isn't looking for solutions and just wants someone to listen, hear it all out, and empathize. It's a challenging situation for an engineer's brain that defaults to problem solving mode. It's still unnatural for me to turn this mode off and listen without trying to solve. In my head I am probably still trying to solve at least a bit but not vocalizing that, at least in the moment.
- snek 8y agothis is one of the big ideas of dialectical behavior therapy. if anyone wants to dig more into this school of thought i recommend googling DBT.
- tombh 8y agoI'd say it's a prevailing theme in most modern psychotherapeutic practices
- hguhghuff 8y agoI really failed at this in my relationship.
- mi_lk 8y agoYep, really learned it the hard way.
- lwhsiao 8y agoJason Headley made a very entertaining video on the topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg
- tombh 8y agoListening is like walking alongside someone, whereas informing is like walking in front of someone. Ultimately life itself is a "problem" that has no destination, it's just nicer to know we're in it together.
- mkolodny 8y agoIt really helped me understand this article to follow the link describing what the author means by "Emotional Support": https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/basics/empathy https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/basics/empathy Basically, emotional support is "understanding another person's thoughts, feelings, and condition from their point of view, rather than from your own"
- extra88 8y agoThat link is just a description of empathy. My problem-solving tendencies come from my understanding the other person’s feelings, how does one demonstrate that understanding in only an “emotional support” way?
- iovrthoughtthis 8y agoTry not to posite a solution. Listen, don’t speak over them. Acknowledge, respond in a way which indicated that you empathise with their emotional state, often by mirroring language, tone, words, body language etc. Guide, ask questions that indicate that you’re open to hearing more about their issues, sometimes worth a “It’s ok if you don’t want to say but, what happened...” Thank them for sharing with you. Done.
- extra88 8y ago> Try not to posite a solution. Listen, don’t speak over them. I got that, I can do that with conscious effort. > often by mirroring language, tone, words, body language etc. I can avoid using my words for things instead of theirs, especially minimizing ones like “hassle” or “inconvenience”, I can avoid closed-off body language like crossing my arms and maybe keep my voice in a different register for a little while but beyond that it come off as an attempt at mimicking, not helpful. > Guide, ask questions that indicate that you’re open to hearing more about their issues, sometimes worth a “It’s ok if you don’t want to say but, what happened...” Thank them for sharing with you. That sounds like an example for someone you don’t actually know very well. > Done. Until tomorrow.
- graycat 8y agoMy real world experience is that, if a person has had to wait for that article to get its lessons, then from lack of those lessons and many more that are much more subtle, they probably got divorced soon after marriage or never got married!!!!
- staunch 8y agoIt sounds stupid but I first learned this concept from the movie "White Men Can't Jump" in 1992 when I was just a kid. I don't accept the idea as a hard rule but I do think it's a valuable perspective to understand. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajBHZKoKYbU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajBHZKoKYbU
- colanderman 8y agoI find it funny that the article's conclusion is "stop giving informational support when emotional support is asked for" rather than "stop asking for emotional support when only informational support is up for offer". It's possible -- I'd dare say likely -- that those giving informational support do so because they are not as capable to give emotional support and may feel drained by it. It's a bit of a harmful conclusion to low-EQ individuals, in the same way that "people who don't like parties should be more outgoing" is harmful to introverts. People are different and relationships are give and take. There's no "right personality" that people should be fixing themselves to match. There's only mutual understanding and compromise. Recognizing that your partner may be searching for a type of support which you are not giving is very important, but only in the greater context of also recognizing both your and your partner's abilities, and reaching a mutual understanding how to bridge that gap.
- cokernel 8y agoThe article suggests using nonviolent communication to clarify which sort of support is needed: > Beyond that, ask for what you want, and check with your partner about what they want. If you want your partner’s support about something, let them know whether you’re looking for understanding or advice. Don’t make them guess. Don’t wait to see what they do. Tell them what you want. I can see that the "Default to emotional support" can seem to suggest that you must provide emotional support whenever asked, but if you can't provide emotional support (whether from low EQ or from being drained), you can't. The suggested strategy of making the request for support unambiguous allows a response along the lines of (but probably not worded this way) "I'd like to provide support, but I can't." The distinction between "stop giving X" and "stop asking for X" is important — in the latter case, someone is asking for what they need, whether or not the need can be fulfilled, while in the former case, someone is providing X, regardless of whether it is desired.
- eezurr 8y agoGreat post. The world is a chaotic place. Most advice articles reach out to some (biased) average from the sum of the author's experiences. Most people want the world to conform to what they're comfortable/familiar with. The moment a person thinks they understand how a person works, is the moment they start projecting themselves (i.e. their experiences) into/onto their interactions. Thus, communication is the only path to sharing mutual enlightenment with another person.
- pokemongoaway 8y agoThis article is supporting me informationally and not emotionally. Hypocrites!
- Booktrope 8y agoThere's even more interesting research indicating that context of support is crucial. (Gable, et al, Safely Testing the Alarm: Close Others’ Responses to Personal Positive Events, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 2012, Vol. 103, No. 6, 963–981) This interesting study provides strong evidence, it's much easier to support a partner in context of a positive event than in context of a negative event. Context appears to play an even more important role than responsiveness or sensitivity of the person giving support. In fact, even if a partner recognizes that he or she received helpful support for a negative event shortly after the event occurred, by several weeks later the support is not generally remembered as positive. If you want to support your partner in a helpful way, make sure you're supporting them when good things happen, and don't count on rescuing someone when things go wrong.
- lostmsu 8y agoI feel like study lacks the overall effect on happiness in the long run. We all know short term effects from the personal experience.
- mettamage 8y agoIsn't it principle instead of principal? Or does principal have somekind of meaning similar to priniciple? Non-native English speaker here.
- sjclemmy 8y agoFrom my experience this is a foundational idea in a marriage / coupling. Took me many years to realise there were two forms of support and more importantly that my response was always solutional. I am now able to sit and listen without offering answers.
- klippoteket 8y agoSame here, also took years to understand that my wife just want to be listened to and not given solutions every 5 sec. Happy wife = happy life!
- naveen99 8y agoInteresting, they found men also prefer emotional support. It’s just that informational support is better than no support for them while not a subset of women who really dislike informational support.
- wiradikusuma 8y agoI'm very interested with the finding, but what is emotional support exactly? Can anyone give concrete example?
- Consultant32452 8y agoEvery time this subject comes up I can't help but feel like society does a somewhat reasonable job of identifying and discouraging negative masculine behavior but doesn't do the same for negative feminine behavior. Why is the feminine personality position assumed to be the "correct" one that everyone must adjust to? Sure, everyone is entitled to a little whining time, and hopefully your partner is empathetic when the need arises, but perhaps it would be better if we discouraged whining in favor of solutioning.
- Daido_M 8y agoI agree with this. Some amount of emotional venting is completely healthy but when it gets to the point where someone is unable to deal with any negative emotions on their own, and must rely on other people for support for even the smallest day-to-day mishap, that's their problem, not everyone else's. And, like what you said, sometimes the solution really is more important than the emotions. This is especially true for the small things, which are the bulk of what we face every day anyway.