4 ms·

> Mozilla is not Google and not Microsoft. ... right now. How many years do you trust them to hold the data they harvest from you? Through how many CEO transit

> Mozilla is not Google and not Microsoft. ... right now. How many years do you trust them to hold the data they harvest from you? Through how many CEO transitions? ;)

kevingadd 8y ago
It may be helpful to understand how Mozilla's operations are structured: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Foundation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Foundation However, anything's possible with the way businessmen tend to bend the rules to make money, so it's certainly within the realm of possibility that within 10 years the Foundation will sell the Corporation to Amazon-Comcast-Warner LLC and then they'll monetize the data.
- fixermark 8y ago
  Precisely. If one is concerned about not giving data like this to Google, MS, et. al. for privacy reasons, I wouldn't trust Mozilla's guarantees without actual contractual language declaring the lifetime of the data and under what circumstances the data will be destroyed (including but not limited to "company is purchased by another company").
  - jopsen 8y ago
    > I wouldn't trust Mozilla's guarantees without actual contractual language... Then go read the fine print: https://addons.mozilla.org/en/firefox/addon/firefox-pioneer/privacy/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en/firefox/addon/firefox-pioneer/... But more importantly understand that this probably isn't for everybody. I think it's a fair guess to say they just want a small population, not something in the millions.
some_account 8y ago
The data they harvest is to make a better browser. The same can not be said about Google or Microsoft. But yes, there are no guarantees in life. Place your bets and roll the dice. You can be passive and do nothing or you can help the ones you believe in. https://medium.com/firefox-context-graph/make-firefox-better-with-pioneer-10c82d0f9301 https://medium.com/firefox-context-graph/make-firefox-better...
- Zarel 8y ago
  Can it really not be said about Google and Microsoft? Do you really think Google is harvesting Chrome crash data because they want to better target ads? What ads are you imagining being targeted to Chrome crashing with a segfault that wouldn't be targeted to Chrome crashing with a stack overflow? I would bet that nearly all the data Google collects goes into making their products better for users, even the data that's also used for ad targeting.
  - godelski 8y ago
    You're acting like crash data is the only data they are collecting.
arghwhat 8y ago
GDPR is a wonderful thing.
- fixermark 8y ago
  I'm afraid I don't follow; how does GDPR enter into it? Wouldn't GDPR protections only apply to European customers?
  - jopsen 8y ago
    Do you honestly think Mozilla is going to deliberately treat Americans worse than Europeans? :)
    - yjftsjthsd-h 8y ago
      Sure. All they have to do is tell themselves that this data is totally being used for a good purpose and Europe is just being over regulatory.
  - arghwhat 8y ago
    You'll never guess where I'm writing from. But, once you've gone through the pain of following GDPR, there's a chance you'll treat everyone the same. The GDPR means that they can't just hoard whatever data there is, keep it forever and do whatever they want with it. The user needs to agree to how the data will be processed, there is a default expiry of 5 years (IIRC), and you can always just ask to retrieve all data and/or have it all deleted, with absurd fines for non-compliance. So, you don't have to trust the next CEO. Making it so that Mozilla never knew you existed is a simple GDPR request away.

> Mozilla is not Google and not Microsoft. ... right now. How many years do you trust them to hold the data they harvest from you? Through how many CEO transitions? ;)

kevingadd 8y ago

It may be helpful to understand how Mozilla's operations are structured: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Foundation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Foundation However, anything's possible with the way businessmen tend to bend the rules to make money, so it's certainly within the realm of possibility that within 10 years the Foundation will sell the Corporation to Amazon-Comcast-Warner LLC and then they'll monetize the data.

fixermark 8y ago
Precisely. If one is concerned about not giving data like this to Google, MS, et. al. for privacy reasons, I wouldn't trust Mozilla's guarantees without actual contractual language declaring the lifetime of the data and under what circumstances the data will be destroyed (including but not limited to "company is purchased by another company").
- jopsen 8y ago
  > I wouldn't trust Mozilla's guarantees without actual contractual language... Then go read the fine print: https://addons.mozilla.org/en/firefox/addon/firefox-pioneer/privacy/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en/firefox/addon/firefox-pioneer/... But more importantly understand that this probably isn't for everybody. I think it's a fair guess to say they just want a small population, not something in the millions.

some_account 8y ago

The data they harvest is to make a better browser. The same can not be said about Google or Microsoft. But yes, there are no guarantees in life. Place your bets and roll the dice. You can be passive and do nothing or you can help the ones you believe in. https://medium.com/firefox-context-graph/make-firefox-better-with-pioneer-10c82d0f9301 https://medium.com/firefox-context-graph/make-firefox-better...

Zarel 8y ago
Can it really not be said about Google and Microsoft? Do you really think Google is harvesting Chrome crash data because they want to better target ads? What ads are you imagining being targeted to Chrome crashing with a segfault that wouldn't be targeted to Chrome crashing with a stack overflow? I would bet that nearly all the data Google collects goes into making their products better for users, even the data that's also used for ad targeting.
- godelski 8y ago
  You're acting like crash data is the only data they are collecting.

arghwhat 8y ago

GDPR is a wonderful thing.

fixermark 8y ago
I'm afraid I don't follow; how does GDPR enter into it? Wouldn't GDPR protections only apply to European customers?
- jopsen 8y ago
  Do you honestly think Mozilla is going to deliberately treat Americans worse than Europeans? :)
  - yjftsjthsd-h 8y ago
    Sure. All they have to do is tell themselves that this data is totally being used for a good purpose and Europe is just being over regulatory.
- arghwhat 8y ago
  You'll never guess where I'm writing from. But, once you've gone through the pain of following GDPR, there's a chance you'll treat everyone the same. The GDPR means that they can't just hoard whatever data there is, keep it forever and do whatever they want with it. The user needs to agree to how the data will be processed, there is a default expiry of 5 years (IIRC), and you can always just ask to retrieve all data and/or have it all deleted, with absurd fines for non-compliance. So, you don't have to trust the next CEO. Making it so that Mozilla never knew you existed is a simple GDPR request away.