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Sapper – Progressive web apps powered by Svelte
- bastawhiz 8y ago"Military-grade progressive web apps" The "menu" button in the upper left doesn't work on my phone, so it seems to check out.
- graedus 8y agoIt doesn't work in desktop Firefox or Chrome either. I don't see any errors, so I think they just forgot to wire it up.
- rich_harris 8y agoyep, looks like I broke something with a recent commit. D'oh. Not in a position to fix right now... moral of the story, no website is too trivial to have acceptance tests
- rich_harris 8y agoIt broke with the upgrade from Svelte v1 to v2. We're working on a fix!
- rich_harris 8y agoFixed now thanks to njb in our Discord chatroom! God I love open source (and Travis CI) - was able to deploy this fix from my mobile phone while watching the brazil-belgium game
- ggurgone 8y agohaha Rich take a break! :D
- 52-6F-62 8y agoYou forgot “(and beer)”. Who’s your team? I had a look at Svelte in the early days but went with something more mature for the project at the time. I actually recently landed on Sapper while looking around tab Web Component projects and it looks good, though I haven’t had a chance to try it out yet. edit: also, read a lot of comments about "why the military tagline". It's a play on the name Sapper. An old buddy of mine is one up in the CAF in Edmonton. They're combat engineers— hence the military tag.
- guiomie 8y agoWhat do they mean by 'military grade' ?
- o_____________o 8y agoHyperbole-Driven Documentation (HDD) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17472194 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17472194
- pier25 8y agoIt's a joke. Sappers are combat engineers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapper
- Waterluvian 8y agoThe technology may be great but the...I dunno what you call it... Branding? Rhetoric? just elicits an eye roll.
- ricardobeat 8y agoIt's a joke on 'Sapper': a soldier responsible for tasks such as building and repairing roads and bridges, laying and clearing mines, etc.
- nasredin 8y agoThat ought to be easy to find on Google! New fancy TLD, the most generic name you can think off... so this is probably gonna get bought pretty fast!
- padraic7a 8y agoMilitary grade? What do they do, steal all your processor resources, blow up your hard drive and waste all your ram?
- orbifold 8y agoI associate the military with wasteful resource management and glacial innovation speed. The military in my country courently does not have working helicopters (they ran out of spare parts) and the rifles they use overheat and bend in combat..
- fareesh 8y agoWould love to try this. Is there some kind of open-source kitchen sink application that outlines best practices for concepts like: - Internationalization - Handling auth w/ SSR - Server side pre-rendering (in case I want to pre-render a template and conditionally cache/expire the HTML for N hours, for better perf instead of rendering on each request) - SEO / Helmet type stuff
- rich_harris 8y agoWe haven't yet developed a full set of best practices around i18n, but the SSR/SEO stuff comes for free with the Sapper model. See https://github.com/sveltejs/realworld https://github.com/sveltejs/realworld for an auth example - better and more self-explanatory ones to come (project is still in early stages)
- zeroxfe 8y agoJust want to point out: "military grade" has negative connotations in tech. In security and cryptography, the term is a strong indicator of snake oil.
- rich_harris 8y agoWe might change it. There's an issue open if anyone is motivated to comment https://github.com/sveltejs/sapper/issues/263 https://github.com/sveltejs/sapper/issues/263
- coderdude 8y agoNo need to change it. I recognized it as humor. Some people overthink everything they see and feel compelled to make that your problem.
- somenewacc 8y agoPerhaps you just need to make the Sapper -> military pun more obvious (my gut feeling was that it was just some ridiculous marketing)
- cirgue 8y agoIt also has connotations of 'built by the lowest bidder for thrice the promised price and with half the promised functionality'
- notatoad 8y agoYeah, my first reaction to that was to stay away, I wouldn't want to use something created by a team that thinks "military grade" JavaScript is something to brag about.
- la_fayette 8y agodoes the world really need another js framework?
- ryanbrunner 8y agoI will say that a front-end focused framework that even acknowledges the existence of a backend is refreshing. And this seems to be a framework in the classic sense - a complete solution to deliver a particular type of app, rather than a library that handles one aspect for you. That's not everyone's cup of tea, but it is an area that doesn't have a lot of attention in modern JS libraries.
- penagwin 8y agoObligatory comment questioning yet another "new js framework". PSA: Don't make a new JS framework guys we don't need any more. /s
- jchw 8y agoThe same question would have been valid during the creation of React, or Webpack. People create new frameworks and tools to try to solve pain points, sometimes they're runaway successes like React or Angular 1, sometimes they're good complimentary tools like Vue.js, and sometimes they fall completely flat, like perhaps Batman.js. Either way, the question of whether we need a new JS framework is not very productive. The right question would be, what can a new JS framework offer that would be worth switching to it for? The answer will differ per team and application.
- hn0 8y agoThe more frameworks, the more there are to learn. The more effort required to learn all frameworks, the more appealing it becomes to roll your own. (The combination of choice paralysis and opportunity cost analysis are a powerful motivator, especially when one comes to the budding realization that even the mightiest frameworks are full of irks. More fun in being a total NIH control freak.)
- gitgud 8y agoIn my opinion; It's important that people try to innovate diverge and make things different. Like the theory of evolution in nature, ideas change and merge, some die out some live on. But, each new iteration of an framework, library or distro will provide some new insight of what can be done better ... or what should not be done.
- rich_harris 8y agoHey all - Sapper creator here. Wasn't expecting to see this on HN, and not in a position to fully join the discussion (ie I'm in a pub) but happy to answer any questions when I can. This is an early project that is still in very active development (we have some very exciting stuff planned), but for a quick primer here's a blog post that sets out our stall a bit: https://svelte.technology/blog/sapper-towards-the-ideal-web-app-framework https://svelte.technology/blog/sapper-towards-the-ideal-web-...
- rajangdavis 8y agoIs it possible to support functionality where I can have my components and pages written in javascript but be rendered as server-side only? I like client-side rendering for certain things; however, I don't really want it for every component/view within a javascript framework. What I want is the flexibility to write declarative components with localized state but only introduce client side rendering when I want to introduce it. I feel like the universal approach can be a bit heavy handed in that everything is getting rendered both on the server and the client. I would love to have something like Angular 1.* but with more structure and server side rendering.
- tropshop 8y agoYou might be interested in https://markojs.com https://markojs.com I used it a few years ago and one of my favorite aspects was using primarily for generating templates server side, and only upgrading to a client component when things became more complex. Out-of-order async rendering was pretty nifty too.
- rajangdavis 8y agoThis is very promising! Thanks for the share!
- gitgud 8y agoWow that looks cool, their benchmark's blow react and vuejs out of the water too!
- mephitix 8y agoMaybe off-topic but the website is noticeably faster than the Svelte guide (https://svelte.technology/ https://svelte.technology/). Is it built on Sapper itself? Or is it just a static site?
- rich_harris 8y agoBoth sites are written in Sapper. The difference is that the Sapper site can take advantage of Sapper's `export` feature, which generates a static site from your codebase, Gatsby-style (except with much less JS). That's probably why it's faster for you (though there'd be less of a difference if I was better at devops)
- k__ 8y agoHow does this work? Like Prepack?
- peter_retief 8y agoFirst reaction, very nice, I spent about a year on vuejs but I missed the structure of django. This looks promising, only had a quick look, will write something small to get a feel for it. Heard of Svelt quite recently through recommendation
- j05huaNathaniel 8y agoA lot of butt hurt over "Military grade" branding.
- arxpoetica 8y agoSapper user here. I've been building a project with it, using it for about 6 mos. and really putting it through its paces. For a project still in active development and undergoing a lot of changes pre-version 1, I've been extremely pleased with just how little I've had to think about stability and other back-to-front-end concerns. For the “yet another new js framework” people out there, in some ways, it's true that Sapper isn't necessarily bringing anything new to the landscape (though I have been very pleased with some of the best-practices adopted-- so much is so-well thought out, and Rich Harris is just a freakin' genius at web systems engineering). BUT The combination of ingenuity with what Svelte does is completely novel, and in that sense, Sapper is really a different beast-- not just another framework. In that regard, one can't really talk fully about Sapper without also talking in depth about the novelty of Svelte, the "disappearing framework." The "what" and "how" of Svelte (and Sapper) have been nicely covered elsewhere (article above, for example), so I won't really touch too much on it. But, as a non-n00b in the Internet landscape, I'll just throw out this hyperbole: there really hasn't ever been anything like Svelte and it's pre-compilation process before in front (and back) end technologies, and it's really just a full on joy to work with it. If you want to get a quick taste, just go check what we Svelters like to say is one of the best kept secrets on the Internet, the Svelte REPL: https://svelte.technology/repl https://svelte.technology/repl
- gcb0 8y ago> runs in build time > site is blank without javascript :-/