8 ms·

Show HN: Upcall – Triggered Human Phone Calls

47 points by leahcim 8y ago

vortico 8y ago
Who is this product for?
- sillyquiet 8y ago
  looks like a telemarketing solution
  - pavel_lishin 8y ago
    Looks like a telemarketing problem from my end.
- dsr_ 8y ago
  Companies that don't mind outsourcing their reputation to a third-party outbound call center. When I get an unsolicited call, I always ask pertinent questions. If they can't be answered swiftly, I know that the company doesn't care enough to properly train their sales critters, and so my trust in them to do anything properly is significantly decreased. Pertinent questions might include "how is your software or service delivered?", "where is the company located?" or "where is your security policy documented?".
  - pavel_lishin 8y ago
    When I get an unsolicited phone call, I typically put my phone down without hanging up and go on about my business, until they hang up.
_verandaguy 8y ago
The pricing page seems... bizarre to me. - They mention that the tiers have 1, 5, or 10 users supported. Is this concurrent users? Does "user" even mean phone call recipient in this case, or is it just someone who's _dispatching_ the Upcall calls? - The enterprise tier seems like it should be subdivided; some of the things you pay for are really, really niche, but likely cost a small fortune to get set up on Upcall's end, justifying a much higher price. Looking at you, HIPAA compliance. - What is, even, a "Logic Decision Tree" in this context? Is this just the fact that the caller should offer the recipient a few specific paths? Isn't it cheaper to do this using a robocall (and widely done this way by many enterprise phone support systems)? - "Custom inbound voicemail" is a weird feature for a company marketing itself as outreach towards clients rather than the other way around; my understanding is that this is marketing and reactivation, not support, and incoming calls should be minimal in most use cases. - All the email stuff is probably cheaper being handled by a specialized standalone service; why try to fracture your business's focus by trying to enter a space dominated by well-established players? (Not trying to say competition is bad, but this company clearly specializes in something other than email, so it makes little sense to me that they should be dividing their effort like this).
- dqv 8y ago
  >- They mention that the tiers have 1, 5, or 10 users supported. Is this concurrent users? Does "user" even mean phone call recipient in this case, or is it just someone who's _dispatching_ the Upcall calls? I assumed user to mean people who are the clients (the people paying for the service) who can login to see the progress of the "call tasks". >- The enterprise tier seems like it should be subdivided; some of the things you pay for are really, really niche, but likely cost a small fortune to get set up on Upcall's end, justifying a much higher price. Looking at you, HIPAA compliance. That's pretty common for this type of service offering. Basically the pricing is there to give you an idea. You see in the basic plan where it says "Ideal for Simple Tasks"? That usually means "you can have it your way, but don't get crazy." Think things like "call and ask Carl if he's coming on Friday" or "let Lakisha know that her order is finished." Everything else is a custom plan! - What is, even, a "Logic Decision Tree" in this context? Is this just the fact that the caller should offer the recipient a few specific paths? Isn't it cheaper to do this using a robocall (and widely done this way by many enterprise phone support systems)? My take away from the How it Works page leads me to believe that it's for use with the "scripts". The script changes when the callee answers a certain way. >- "Custom inbound voicemail" is a weird feature for a company marketing itself as outreach towards clients rather than the other way around; my understanding is that this is marketing and reactivation, not support, and incoming calls should be minimal in most use cases. They're banking on people setting the custom caller ID to their actual number. It's probably just their so there is no "hole" if someone calls back. Certain types of calls do generate a lot of callbacks. >- All the email stuff is probably cheaper being handled by a specialized standalone service; why try to fracture your business's focus by trying to enter a space dominated by well-established players? (Not trying to say competition is bad, but this company clearly specializes in something other than email, so it makes little sense to me that they should be dividing their effort like this). I think it's specific to the use case of contacting new leads. If I were upcall, my intent would be to scan the emails for specific types of customers that the client wants to call and start "call tasks" based on that.
voidmain 8y ago
Telemarketing is wrong. You are working to destroy the value of one of the most marvelous accomplishments of the human race.
- lainga 8y ago
  Looked good enough for the people running this site (this is YC W17).
  - hk__2 8y ago
    100% of bad things look good enough for some people at some point, otherwise they wouldn’t be done. That doesn’t make them any good.
  - inetknght 8y ago
    :O https://blog.ycombinator.com/yc-w17-launch-credy-upcall-and-kangpe/ https://blog.ycombinator.com/yc-w17-launch-credy-upcall-and-...
- _verandaguy 8y ago
  Telemarketing isn't inherently wrong, IMO, even though it's often poorly-executed and painfully annoying. In some cases, it's a better way of doing client outreach than email.
  - mulmen 8y ago
    I'll give you the benefit of the doubt but I can't think of a scenario where a cold call is preferable to an email, or no contact at all. Can you give an example?
    - _verandaguy 8y ago
      I can't, but that's largely because of what I attribute cold calls to: long wait times, poor connection quality, and a person on the other end who really doesn't know what they're doing or talking about; that's why I brought up poor execution. If I left a service because of reason X and got a cold call a reasonable amount of time later where the caller could explain why they did X and that Y replaces X, and could clearly and concisely address my concerns, then I'd be much less averse to the idea of cold calls.
nickthemagicman 8y ago
When you said triggered I thought it was angry people making phone calls.
- lainga 8y ago
  Close!- the phone calls are making angry people.
  - nickthemagicman 8y ago
    Lol. The Triggered Human team is a crack team of socially insensitive people with the ability to trigger someone in under 5 seconds.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
crsv 8y ago
I don't see any policies around types of businesses, code of conduct, adherence to Do-Not-Call policies or information regarding privacy or security rigor applied to the citizens that would be effected by this platform. This just seems like an amoral SaaS service I kind of want to die. Fast.
- kposehn 8y ago
  While your commentary around privacy and security is valid (they could indeed reference that more clearly), referring to them outright as an “Amoral SaaS service [you] kind of want to die” is extremely judgmental and out of place on HN.
  - crsv 8y ago
    I disagree. I think I laid out a fair argument for my opinion, and I believe I have the right to express that opinion in our lovely open internet as much as they have a right to be a thing in the first place. Me wanting this to cease to exist isn't calling in to question their right to be there in the first place. I think if we ever lose our voice in calling out things that seem detrimental to our society at large for the sake of not seeming "judgemental", then we've devoided all platforms of value - especially HN.
    - kposehn 8y ago
      My issue is that you made a blanket judgement of something with seemingly little input or reasoning. Why do you feel that way? Go into some detail at the very least, instead of just dismissing it out of hand. The security questions could be answered by then more easily instead of having to dig - I get that. But that’s not enough imho. You have the right to express your opinion, for sure. But when you make a blanket judgement with little you’re going against HN guidelines: > Be civil. Don't say things you wouldn't say face-to-face. Don't be snarky. Comments should get more civil and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. > Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something.
kposehn 8y ago
I see a lot of criticism of this product by referencing it as a telemarketing solution - it is not. These are not cold calls: they are inbound leads that you have to source and have permission to call. If someone fills out a lead form on your site and checks the “contact by phone” option, this allows you to scale a bit more rapidly in high-volume top-of-funnel lead gen where you are trying to filter out unqualified or low-value leads. Edit: sueders101 pointed out that they reference cold calls. With the TOS in mind I bet that’s a copy mistake as they require permission to call berg secured before making a call. Thy definitely could use some copy updates and calling out security/privacy more clearly.
- sueders101 8y ago
  "These are not cold calls" When you hover over the solutions options they literally say "Prospecting: We cold call businesses and generate new leads for you."
  - kposehn 8y ago
    Fair. I was referencing the demo and the ToS makes it clear you must have an Established Business Relationship, which means I’m this case it wouldn’t be truly cold as there is a lead and permission to call involved.
    - sueders101 8y ago
      "you must have an Established Business Relationship" They say on the prospecting page: "UPLOAD YOUR LIST: Upload a list of target businesses to call. We can help you finding one too." It doesn't sound like you need an Established Business Relationship.
      - kposehn 8y ago
        Yeah, it’s not terribly consistent what they require. I do agree they need to call it out more clearly :)
    - detaro 8y ago
nvr219 8y ago
I thought this was going to be outsourcing to have someone else call NYTimes to cancel my subscription.
yakattak 8y ago
I have a hunch these automated call systems that "do things for humans" (like Duplex, or this) are taking a ride on the Hype Cycle.
bdcravens 8y ago
The calls at Basic level are $0.29/minute. That's only $18/hour, and with Upcall taking a cut of that, what is the skill and education level if they have a "100% U.S.-based team"?
- pavel_lishin 8y ago
  What's the problem with a low skill and education ceiling?
  - bdcravens 8y ago
    Intrinsically, nothing. However, it seems incongruent with how they're positioning the product. Presumably a low-skilled and low-educated work force can fit into a sales pipeline, but the same could be said for doing software QA, yet we still essentially hire for the edge cases.
desireco42 8y ago
I would like to call out YCombinator for supporting this. It is a slimy business, it is booming at the moment, but there are a lot of other, healthier ways to make money and I think they built perception to be better then others for good reason. This just doesn't suit them. I am open to hear opposing views and explanations, sans kposehn who acts as these guys advocate here.
Proven 8y ago
WTF, spam!
midnightmonster 8y ago
The platform overview video is basically a screencast, and 480P is a really painful resolution for watching small text, even if I open it in YouTube app instead of the postage-stamp inline size the site tried to show it to me in. For a service that’s supposed to talk to people for me, the fact that you apparently could not find anyone to record audio for a 4 min video really doesn’t inspire confidence.
rhacker 8y ago
Why the heck is this is Show HN? It's a company with 2.2M in funding. https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html Also first time submitted was 2 years ago.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
BubbasDad 8y ago
Wow, you can tell it's Monday! Haters gonna hate. Not sure if it belongs in ShowHN, but as someone familiar with the company I can say that Upcall outsources outbound calling for inbound leads. For the uninitiated, that means people who've requested to be contacted by phone and given their phone number for that very reason. As a former tech sales exec, I'm always amused by engineers who think their salary comes out of thin air, or that your VCs don't expect a profit at some point. Someone has to sell what you're coding, and that generally involves a phone call, and there is a correlation between deals closing and the speed with which someone responds to a warm lead. Upcall's goal is to fill that need.

47 points by leahcim 8y ago

vortico 8y ago

Who is this product for?

sillyquiet 8y ago
looks like a telemarketing solution
- pavel_lishin 8y ago
  Looks like a telemarketing problem from my end.
dsr_ 8y ago
Companies that don't mind outsourcing their reputation to a third-party outbound call center. When I get an unsolicited call, I always ask pertinent questions. If they can't be answered swiftly, I know that the company doesn't care enough to properly train their sales critters, and so my trust in them to do anything properly is significantly decreased. Pertinent questions might include "how is your software or service delivered?", "where is the company located?" or "where is your security policy documented?".
- pavel_lishin 8y ago
  When I get an unsolicited phone call, I typically put my phone down without hanging up and go on about my business, until they hang up.

_verandaguy 8y ago

The pricing page seems... bizarre to me. - They mention that the tiers have 1, 5, or 10 users supported. Is this concurrent users? Does "user" even mean phone call recipient in this case, or is it just someone who's _dispatching_ the Upcall calls? - The enterprise tier seems like it should be subdivided; some of the things you pay for are really, really niche, but likely cost a small fortune to get set up on Upcall's end, justifying a much higher price. Looking at you, HIPAA compliance. - What is, even, a "Logic Decision Tree" in this context? Is this just the fact that the caller should offer the recipient a few specific paths? Isn't it cheaper to do this using a robocall (and widely done this way by many enterprise phone support systems)? - "Custom inbound voicemail" is a weird feature for a company marketing itself as outreach towards clients rather than the other way around; my understanding is that this is marketing and reactivation, not support, and incoming calls should be minimal in most use cases. - All the email stuff is probably cheaper being handled by a specialized standalone service; why try to fracture your business's focus by trying to enter a space dominated by well-established players? (Not trying to say competition is bad, but this company clearly specializes in something other than email, so it makes little sense to me that they should be dividing their effort like this).

dqv 8y ago
>- They mention that the tiers have 1, 5, or 10 users supported. Is this concurrent users? Does "user" even mean phone call recipient in this case, or is it just someone who's _dispatching_ the Upcall calls? I assumed user to mean people who are the clients (the people paying for the service) who can login to see the progress of the "call tasks". >- The enterprise tier seems like it should be subdivided; some of the things you pay for are really, really niche, but likely cost a small fortune to get set up on Upcall's end, justifying a much higher price. Looking at you, HIPAA compliance. That's pretty common for this type of service offering. Basically the pricing is there to give you an idea. You see in the basic plan where it says "Ideal for Simple Tasks"? That usually means "you can have it your way, but don't get crazy." Think things like "call and ask Carl if he's coming on Friday" or "let Lakisha know that her order is finished." Everything else is a custom plan! - What is, even, a "Logic Decision Tree" in this context? Is this just the fact that the caller should offer the recipient a few specific paths? Isn't it cheaper to do this using a robocall (and widely done this way by many enterprise phone support systems)? My take away from the How it Works page leads me to believe that it's for use with the "scripts". The script changes when the callee answers a certain way. >- "Custom inbound voicemail" is a weird feature for a company marketing itself as outreach towards clients rather than the other way around; my understanding is that this is marketing and reactivation, not support, and incoming calls should be minimal in most use cases. They're banking on people setting the custom caller ID to their actual number. It's probably just their so there is no "hole" if someone calls back. Certain types of calls do generate a lot of callbacks. >- All the email stuff is probably cheaper being handled by a specialized standalone service; why try to fracture your business's focus by trying to enter a space dominated by well-established players? (Not trying to say competition is bad, but this company clearly specializes in something other than email, so it makes little sense to me that they should be dividing their effort like this). I think it's specific to the use case of contacting new leads. If I were upcall, my intent would be to scan the emails for specific types of customers that the client wants to call and start "call tasks" based on that.

voidmain 8y ago

Telemarketing is wrong. You are working to destroy the value of one of the most marvelous accomplishments of the human race.

lainga 8y ago
Looked good enough for the people running this site (this is YC W17).
- hk__2 8y ago
  100% of bad things look good enough for some people at some point, otherwise they wouldn’t be done. That doesn’t make them any good.
- inetknght 8y ago
  :O https://blog.ycombinator.com/yc-w17-launch-credy-upcall-and-kangpe/ https://blog.ycombinator.com/yc-w17-launch-credy-upcall-and-...
_verandaguy 8y ago
Telemarketing isn't inherently wrong, IMO, even though it's often poorly-executed and painfully annoying. In some cases, it's a better way of doing client outreach than email.
- mulmen 8y ago
  I'll give you the benefit of the doubt but I can't think of a scenario where a cold call is preferable to an email, or no contact at all. Can you give an example?
  - _verandaguy 8y ago
    I can't, but that's largely because of what I attribute cold calls to: long wait times, poor connection quality, and a person on the other end who really doesn't know what they're doing or talking about; that's why I brought up poor execution. If I left a service because of reason X and got a cold call a reasonable amount of time later where the caller could explain why they did X and that Y replaces X, and could clearly and concisely address my concerns, then I'd be much less averse to the idea of cold calls.

nickthemagicman 8y ago

When you said triggered I thought it was angry people making phone calls.

lainga 8y ago
Close!- the phone calls are making angry people.
- nickthemagicman 8y ago
  Lol. The Triggered Human team is a crack team of socially insensitive people with the ability to trigger someone in under 5 seconds.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

crsv 8y ago

I don't see any policies around types of businesses, code of conduct, adherence to Do-Not-Call policies or information regarding privacy or security rigor applied to the citizens that would be effected by this platform. This just seems like an amoral SaaS service I kind of want to die. Fast.

kposehn 8y ago
While your commentary around privacy and security is valid (they could indeed reference that more clearly), referring to them outright as an “Amoral SaaS service [you] kind of want to die” is extremely judgmental and out of place on HN.
- crsv 8y ago
  I disagree. I think I laid out a fair argument for my opinion, and I believe I have the right to express that opinion in our lovely open internet as much as they have a right to be a thing in the first place. Me wanting this to cease to exist isn't calling in to question their right to be there in the first place. I think if we ever lose our voice in calling out things that seem detrimental to our society at large for the sake of not seeming "judgemental", then we've devoided all platforms of value - especially HN.
  - kposehn 8y ago
    My issue is that you made a blanket judgement of something with seemingly little input or reasoning. Why do you feel that way? Go into some detail at the very least, instead of just dismissing it out of hand. The security questions could be answered by then more easily instead of having to dig - I get that. But that’s not enough imho. You have the right to express your opinion, for sure. But when you make a blanket judgement with little you’re going against HN guidelines: > Be civil. Don't say things you wouldn't say face-to-face. Don't be snarky. Comments should get more civil and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. > Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something.

kposehn 8y ago

I see a lot of criticism of this product by referencing it as a telemarketing solution - it is not. These are not cold calls: they are inbound leads that you have to source and have permission to call. If someone fills out a lead form on your site and checks the “contact by phone” option, this allows you to scale a bit more rapidly in high-volume top-of-funnel lead gen where you are trying to filter out unqualified or low-value leads. Edit: sueders101 pointed out that they reference cold calls. With the TOS in mind I bet that’s a copy mistake as they require permission to call berg secured before making a call. Thy definitely could use some copy updates and calling out security/privacy more clearly.

sueders101 8y ago
"These are not cold calls" When you hover over the solutions options they literally say "Prospecting: We cold call businesses and generate new leads for you."
- kposehn 8y ago
  Fair. I was referencing the demo and the ToS makes it clear you must have an Established Business Relationship, which means I’m this case it wouldn’t be truly cold as there is a lead and permission to call involved.
  - sueders101 8y ago
    "you must have an Established Business Relationship" They say on the prospecting page: "UPLOAD YOUR LIST: Upload a list of target businesses to call. We can help you finding one too." It doesn't sound like you need an Established Business Relationship.
    - kposehn 8y ago
      Yeah, it’s not terribly consistent what they require. I do agree they need to call it out more clearly :)
  - detaro 8y ago

nvr219 8y ago

I thought this was going to be outsourcing to have someone else call NYTimes to cancel my subscription.

yakattak 8y ago

I have a hunch these automated call systems that "do things for humans" (like Duplex, or this) are taking a ride on the Hype Cycle.

bdcravens 8y ago

The calls at Basic level are $0.29/minute. That's only $18/hour, and with Upcall taking a cut of that, what is the skill and education level if they have a "100% U.S.-based team"?

pavel_lishin 8y ago
What's the problem with a low skill and education ceiling?
- bdcravens 8y ago
  Intrinsically, nothing. However, it seems incongruent with how they're positioning the product. Presumably a low-skilled and low-educated work force can fit into a sales pipeline, but the same could be said for doing software QA, yet we still essentially hire for the edge cases.

desireco42 8y ago

I would like to call out YCombinator for supporting this. It is a slimy business, it is booming at the moment, but there are a lot of other, healthier ways to make money and I think they built perception to be better then others for good reason. This just doesn't suit them. I am open to hear opposing views and explanations, sans kposehn who acts as these guys advocate here.

Proven 8y ago

WTF, spam!

midnightmonster 8y ago

The platform overview video is basically a screencast, and 480P is a really painful resolution for watching small text, even if I open it in YouTube app instead of the postage-stamp inline size the site tried to show it to me in. For a service that’s supposed to talk to people for me, the fact that you apparently could not find anyone to record audio for a 4 min video really doesn’t inspire confidence.

rhacker 8y ago

Why the heck is this is Show HN? It's a company with 2.2M in funding. https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html Also first time submitted was 2 years ago.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

BubbasDad 8y ago

Wow, you can tell it's Monday! Haters gonna hate. Not sure if it belongs in ShowHN, but as someone familiar with the company I can say that Upcall outsources outbound calling for inbound leads. For the uninitiated, that means people who've requested to be contacted by phone and given their phone number for that very reason. As a former tech sales exec, I'm always amused by engineers who think their salary comes out of thin air, or that your VCs don't expect a profit at some point. Someone has to sell what you're coding, and that generally involves a phone call, and there is a correlation between deals closing and the speed with which someone responds to a warm lead. Upcall's goal is to fill that need.