6 ms·

> At least Apple never tried to force-update the machine I was using in the middle of an important client pitch, unlike other OS vendors I could mention. You

> At least Apple never tried to force-update the machine I was using in the middle of an important client pitch, unlike other OS vendors I could mention. You left out the part where you ignored ample warnings that a reboot was needed for days in advance.

rusk 8y ago
> ample warnings Ample warnings or not, this is unsatisfactory.
- cptskippy 8y ago
  Yes and knowing that your OS is shitty in that way doesn't excuse you from responsibility for not rebooting your system before you do a presentation in front of a client knowing that it's been annoying you to reboot for days.
  - rusk 8y ago
    The fact that it’s my computer does, actually
    - cptskippy 8y ago
      No, it's still your responsibility. If your computer reboots to apply an update when you don't want it to, it's because you failed in your responsibility to act as a good citizen of the internet. Wait what?! Yes that's right, you're a dick. The automatic update system Microsoft implemented was because people weren't updating their computers regularly and they were vulnerable to attacks that made them part of botnets that attacked other people on the internet. So if your system automatically updated itself it's because you connected it to the internet. If your system automatically rebooted itself, it's because you didn't reboot when it asked you to do so multiple times. Thus you are a dick head for not maintain your system at the expense of everyone else on the internet.
      - rusk 8y ago
        No sir, it is you who is a dick head. Please review the terms of use for this site.
        cptskippy 8y ago
        My being a dick head doesn't not preclude you from being one. It's not a title.
        rusk 8y ago
        Bye bye
        dang 8y ago
        It breaks the HN guidelines to continue a flamewar like this even when someone else is posting bad comments. Please (re-)read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and don't do this again, regardless of how annoyed you are.
  - snowwindwaves 8y ago
    Computer should do what I want! I'm the boss! If I don't want to reboot, no reboot!! Computer should not annoy me! I'm the boss!
    - cptskippy 8y ago
      The behavior was implemented because in past versions of Windows people neglected to update or outright refused and this left them vulnerable to all manner of malicious attacks. Unfortunately these attacks weren't just to carry out actions against the owners of those computers. The computers were turned into zombie members of botnets that performed all manner of bad things on the internet from attacks on sites to relaying spam.
      - rusk 8y ago
        Of course I understand that it’s a strategy for getting away with shipping poor software ... however, as a responsible and experienced user I should be able to disable this (oh yeah I can pay for the privilege by paying for the pro version). and even then, it’s completely wrong to be force an upgrade when the computer is in use
        cptskippy 8y ago
        > Of course I understand that it’s a strategy for getting away with shipping poor software That's just an excuse you're using to justify your frustration about having a freedom taken away because of bad actors. > however, as a responsible and experienced user I should be able to disable this. and even then, it’s completely wrong to be force an upgrade when the computer is in use How do you propose we sort out the irresponsible users and keep them from disabling this feature after watching some youtube video on how to boost system performance? > (oh yeah I can pay for the privilege by paying for the pro version) Not with Pro you can't. Only with Enterprise and it only exists there because the assumption exists that the organization will force updates at it's own rate.
      - snowwindwaves 8y ago
        I haven't applied updates in over a year on windows 7. Before I do I take an image of my disk so I can go revert all changes. I check each one to see what it is going to change. This takes a lot of time so I don't want to do it every week. I wait until I am between critical tasks or projects. I rely on my computer to make money which I use to pay for food and accommodation! I rely on my computer to run simulations which can take weeks. I can't have it randomly rebooting in the middle of them and setting me back! My customers rely on me and my computer and the esoteric software installed on it to make their plants run. I can't have major system components changing underneath it risking the functionality of the computer! I can be responsible for myself and my computer and not click stupid links and open stupid attachments or even be connected to hostile networks with all kinds of TCP/UDP ports open. In the event that it happened I would rather my computer was part of a botnet temporarily then regularly risking my ability to feed and house my family. I don't run antivirus software other than windows defender either. it is the cure worse than the disease.
  - h1d 8y ago
    Funny under Windows that rebooting is a "responsibility". It's a liability as a tool. MS should've just dropped Windows altogether just like they dropped IE and started out as Edge afresh as they're fighting a battle that can't be won.
  - dang 8y ago
    The kind of flamewar you turned this thread into is just what we don't want on HN. Could you please (re-)read the guidelines at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and not do it again? You also got plain uncivil downthread and we ban accounts that do that, so please don't do that either—regardless of whether someone was wrong not to reboot their computer.
mattkevan 8y ago
Wasn’t mine. It was the generic meeting room presentation machine. Don’t care about what warnings were or weren’t ignored: the main lesson is that Windows will leave you in the lurch at the worst possible time.
- cptskippy 8y ago
  That sounds like a failure of the IT department then to properly maintain the machines. Enterprise Windows can be managed very differently than the consumer versions.
  - mattkevan 8y ago
    As prominent tech CEOs have discovered, ‘You’re doing it wrong’ doesn’t go down all that well as a defence.
- LeftTurnSignal 8y ago
  Nothing makes for better tournament streams than having the update box pop up during grand finals, or watching the stream lag more and more because of an update installing in the background. I don't know what the future will hold, but I do know the present is a pretty frustrating time for this type of stuff.
tom_ 8y ago
The forced update stuff can be a real pain even if no reboot is needed. Many updates cause high CPU usage, making work rather slow going. Some even do this during the downloading step, so they can cause you trouble even during your active hours. Even if you disable this stuff with the Group Policy Editor, you still have to be careful, because if you click the 'you need updates' notification (perhaps to see which updates are ready) you approve them for installation sight unseen. The entire system is unfathomably user-hostile.
- moftz 8y ago
  What was really fun in 7 was the weird state Windows Update would be in if it had not received updates in a long time. It would hog CPU and do nothing. You would manually have to download a couple key patches and apply them before Update would be able to connect and install anything else.
  - LeftTurnSignal 8y ago
    That was so frustrating too. I remember the update to windows update usually fixed it if I could find it. I did have a lot of success letting Windows Update run overnight though. Then it would inevitably be stuck at 2% waiting for a button to get hit. We've come so far.

rusk 8y ago

> ample warnings Ample warnings or not, this is unsatisfactory.

cptskippy 8y ago
Yes and knowing that your OS is shitty in that way doesn't excuse you from responsibility for not rebooting your system before you do a presentation in front of a client knowing that it's been annoying you to reboot for days.
- rusk 8y ago
  The fact that it’s my computer does, actually
  - cptskippy 8y ago
    No, it's still your responsibility. If your computer reboots to apply an update when you don't want it to, it's because you failed in your responsibility to act as a good citizen of the internet. Wait what?! Yes that's right, you're a dick. The automatic update system Microsoft implemented was because people weren't updating their computers regularly and they were vulnerable to attacks that made them part of botnets that attacked other people on the internet. So if your system automatically updated itself it's because you connected it to the internet. If your system automatically rebooted itself, it's because you didn't reboot when it asked you to do so multiple times. Thus you are a dick head for not maintain your system at the expense of everyone else on the internet.
    - rusk 8y ago
      No sir, it is you who is a dick head. Please review the terms of use for this site.
      - cptskippy 8y ago
        My being a dick head doesn't not preclude you from being one. It's not a title.
        rusk 8y ago
        Bye bye
      - dang 8y ago
        It breaks the HN guidelines to continue a flamewar like this even when someone else is posting bad comments. Please (re-)read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and don't do this again, regardless of how annoyed you are.
- snowwindwaves 8y ago
  Computer should do what I want! I'm the boss! If I don't want to reboot, no reboot!! Computer should not annoy me! I'm the boss!
  - cptskippy 8y ago
    The behavior was implemented because in past versions of Windows people neglected to update or outright refused and this left them vulnerable to all manner of malicious attacks. Unfortunately these attacks weren't just to carry out actions against the owners of those computers. The computers were turned into zombie members of botnets that performed all manner of bad things on the internet from attacks on sites to relaying spam.
    - rusk 8y ago
      Of course I understand that it’s a strategy for getting away with shipping poor software ... however, as a responsible and experienced user I should be able to disable this (oh yeah I can pay for the privilege by paying for the pro version). and even then, it’s completely wrong to be force an upgrade when the computer is in use
      - cptskippy 8y ago
        > Of course I understand that it’s a strategy for getting away with shipping poor software That's just an excuse you're using to justify your frustration about having a freedom taken away because of bad actors. > however, as a responsible and experienced user I should be able to disable this. and even then, it’s completely wrong to be force an upgrade when the computer is in use How do you propose we sort out the irresponsible users and keep them from disabling this feature after watching some youtube video on how to boost system performance? > (oh yeah I can pay for the privilege by paying for the pro version) Not with Pro you can't. Only with Enterprise and it only exists there because the assumption exists that the organization will force updates at it's own rate.
    - snowwindwaves 8y ago
      I haven't applied updates in over a year on windows 7. Before I do I take an image of my disk so I can go revert all changes. I check each one to see what it is going to change. This takes a lot of time so I don't want to do it every week. I wait until I am between critical tasks or projects. I rely on my computer to make money which I use to pay for food and accommodation! I rely on my computer to run simulations which can take weeks. I can't have it randomly rebooting in the middle of them and setting me back! My customers rely on me and my computer and the esoteric software installed on it to make their plants run. I can't have major system components changing underneath it risking the functionality of the computer! I can be responsible for myself and my computer and not click stupid links and open stupid attachments or even be connected to hostile networks with all kinds of TCP/UDP ports open. In the event that it happened I would rather my computer was part of a botnet temporarily then regularly risking my ability to feed and house my family. I don't run antivirus software other than windows defender either. it is the cure worse than the disease.
- h1d 8y ago
  Funny under Windows that rebooting is a "responsibility". It's a liability as a tool. MS should've just dropped Windows altogether just like they dropped IE and started out as Edge afresh as they're fighting a battle that can't be won.
- dang 8y ago
  The kind of flamewar you turned this thread into is just what we don't want on HN. Could you please (re-)read the guidelines at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and not do it again? You also got plain uncivil downthread and we ban accounts that do that, so please don't do that either—regardless of whether someone was wrong not to reboot their computer.

mattkevan 8y ago

Wasn’t mine. It was the generic meeting room presentation machine. Don’t care about what warnings were or weren’t ignored: the main lesson is that Windows will leave you in the lurch at the worst possible time.

cptskippy 8y ago
That sounds like a failure of the IT department then to properly maintain the machines. Enterprise Windows can be managed very differently than the consumer versions.
- mattkevan 8y ago
  As prominent tech CEOs have discovered, ‘You’re doing it wrong’ doesn’t go down all that well as a defence.
LeftTurnSignal 8y ago
Nothing makes for better tournament streams than having the update box pop up during grand finals, or watching the stream lag more and more because of an update installing in the background. I don't know what the future will hold, but I do know the present is a pretty frustrating time for this type of stuff.

tom_ 8y ago

The forced update stuff can be a real pain even if no reboot is needed. Many updates cause high CPU usage, making work rather slow going. Some even do this during the downloading step, so they can cause you trouble even during your active hours. Even if you disable this stuff with the Group Policy Editor, you still have to be careful, because if you click the 'you need updates' notification (perhaps to see which updates are ready) you approve them for installation sight unseen. The entire system is unfathomably user-hostile.

moftz 8y ago
What was really fun in 7 was the weird state Windows Update would be in if it had not received updates in a long time. It would hog CPU and do nothing. You would manually have to download a couple key patches and apply them before Update would be able to connect and install anything else.
- LeftTurnSignal 8y ago
  That was so frustrating too. I remember the update to windows update usually fixed it if I could find it. I did have a lot of success letting Windows Update run overnight though. Then it would inevitably be stuck at 2% waiting for a button to get hit. We've come so far.