4 ms·

If it was released in beta of longhorn in 2004 couldn’t they have still legitimately created the doc???

by philliphaydon 8y ago

chris_wot 8y ago
The first public beta was released on June 6, 2006.
- philliphaydon 8y ago
  > It was first presented in a 2004 beta of Windows Vista, then codenamed Longhorn According to Wikipedia. Hence my question. Even tho it wasn’t yet part of office could it have been selected if it was installed on the OS?
  - ChrisRR 8y ago
    chris_wot is saying that the first public beta was in 2006, so a beta in 2004 would have been internal to Microsoft (ignoring any leaked versions)
    - philliphaydon 8y ago
      According to Wikipedia it shipped with longhorn beta in 2004, but was part of office 2007 beta in 2006. So even tho you couldn’t get it on windows xp at the time. If you were using a beta version of longhorn with office 2003 you could in theory use the font... That’s my thinking. I just donno if that would work.
nobrains 8y ago
Even if it was, it would beg the question of probability of them (1) installing and using the beta and (2) somehow selecting an obscure font and (3) the font ends up becoming the default font years later.
- hutzlibu 8y ago
  Or someone else smuggled the font on their computer, so to set them up on this corruption case 12 years later ... also possible, but even less likely.
  - YCode 8y ago
    "Oh uh... Hashim, we're using this new font now, I send it to you." "What is wrong with Times New Roman?" "Pah! Are we Romans? Anyway, the prime minister prefers it."
    - hutzlibu 8y ago
      "What is wrong with Times New Roman?" According to my design Professor back in University .. a lot. I never really bothered before, but now I see a lot wrong with it, too. But maybe I just have been brainwashed..
  - deltateam 8y ago
    or a Pakistani web/graphic designer was in their family and the oversaturated race to the bottom resulted in obtaining that unique touch. surprised that never came up during the case, but Pakistan drama is fun to watch play out from afar.
    - throwaway37585 8y ago
      What do you mean by “race to the bottom”?
      - deltateam 8y ago
        a "race to the bottom" is when people offer better and better services at lower and lower prices, in an almost comical way because the people interested in that trade exert a high level of discipline and are not rewarded for it. such was the case of graphic design in pakistan, and still is.
Fnoord 8y ago
Extremely unlikely government officials of Pakistan used Longhorn beta in production...
iKSv2 8y ago
"longhorn" aah that word triggers the memories of "packs" we used to get on deviantart to modify your windows back in the day
philliphaydon 8y ago
https://www.dawn.com/news/1344685 https://www.dawn.com/news/1344685 > In a separate email, de Groot, the font designer himself, said that while in theory it would have been possible to create a document using Calibri in 2006, the font would have to be obtained from a beta operating system, "from the hands of computer nerds". > "Why would anyone use a completely unknown font for an official document in 2006?" he went on to question. > "If the person using Calibri was such a font lover that he or she had to use the new Calibri, then he or she should be able to prove that other documents were printed with Calibri in 2006, and these prints should be in the hands of other people as well," he wrote. > De Groot said in his opinion the document signed by Maryam Nawaz was "produced much later, when Calibri was the default font in MS Word". So apparently yes it would be possible but highly unlikely.
- deltateam 8y ago
  Having dealt with so many Pakistani web/graphic designers and photo retouchers back then, I don't think it is highly unlikely at all. There was such a competitive race to the bottom with graphic design work that I could have seen the Prime Minister's son, daughter or anyone in their network having had that font on their computer. At the time of this trial, I always had to laugh about the argument and wondered if I could present this reality as a third party to the trial, but then I saw that like every Pakistani Prime Minister is brought down this way and realized it has no bearing on my life whatsoever.
  - arif_sohaib 8y ago
    I double Hamza Shahbaz or Mariam Nawaz even know how to use Word on a normal PC, let alone get and install beta software.
    - deltateam 8y ago
      Its not my problem that the defense never brought it up. Shows a real lack of imagination. "Actually we used to moonlight on Craigslist and routinely searched for fonts in leaked beta software to differentiate ourselves" Now I'm being facetious. But there are a lot of probable ways a font was added, ESPECIALLY for people that aren't good with computers. A toolbar added by a hacker group could have stolen fonts in it.

If it was released in beta of longhorn in 2004 couldn’t they have still legitimately created the doc???

chris_wot 8y ago

The first public beta was released on June 6, 2006.

philliphaydon 8y ago
> It was first presented in a 2004 beta of Windows Vista, then codenamed Longhorn According to Wikipedia. Hence my question. Even tho it wasn’t yet part of office could it have been selected if it was installed on the OS?
- ChrisRR 8y ago
  chris_wot is saying that the first public beta was in 2006, so a beta in 2004 would have been internal to Microsoft (ignoring any leaked versions)
  - philliphaydon 8y ago
    According to Wikipedia it shipped with longhorn beta in 2004, but was part of office 2007 beta in 2006. So even tho you couldn’t get it on windows xp at the time. If you were using a beta version of longhorn with office 2003 you could in theory use the font... That’s my thinking. I just donno if that would work.

nobrains 8y ago

Even if it was, it would beg the question of probability of them (1) installing and using the beta and (2) somehow selecting an obscure font and (3) the font ends up becoming the default font years later.

hutzlibu 8y ago
Or someone else smuggled the font on their computer, so to set them up on this corruption case 12 years later ... also possible, but even less likely.
- YCode 8y ago
  "Oh uh... Hashim, we're using this new font now, I send it to you." "What is wrong with Times New Roman?" "Pah! Are we Romans? Anyway, the prime minister prefers it."
  - hutzlibu 8y ago
    "What is wrong with Times New Roman?" According to my design Professor back in University .. a lot. I never really bothered before, but now I see a lot wrong with it, too. But maybe I just have been brainwashed..
- deltateam 8y ago
  or a Pakistani web/graphic designer was in their family and the oversaturated race to the bottom resulted in obtaining that unique touch. surprised that never came up during the case, but Pakistan drama is fun to watch play out from afar.
  - throwaway37585 8y ago
    What do you mean by “race to the bottom”?
    - deltateam 8y ago
      a "race to the bottom" is when people offer better and better services at lower and lower prices, in an almost comical way because the people interested in that trade exert a high level of discipline and are not rewarded for it. such was the case of graphic design in pakistan, and still is.

Fnoord 8y ago

Extremely unlikely government officials of Pakistan used Longhorn beta in production...

iKSv2 8y ago

"longhorn" aah that word triggers the memories of "packs" we used to get on deviantart to modify your windows back in the day

philliphaydon 8y ago

https://www.dawn.com/news/1344685 https://www.dawn.com/news/1344685 > In a separate email, de Groot, the font designer himself, said that while in theory it would have been possible to create a document using Calibri in 2006, the font would have to be obtained from a beta operating system, "from the hands of computer nerds". > "Why would anyone use a completely unknown font for an official document in 2006?" he went on to question. > "If the person using Calibri was such a font lover that he or she had to use the new Calibri, then he or she should be able to prove that other documents were printed with Calibri in 2006, and these prints should be in the hands of other people as well," he wrote. > De Groot said in his opinion the document signed by Maryam Nawaz was "produced much later, when Calibri was the default font in MS Word". So apparently yes it would be possible but highly unlikely.

deltateam 8y ago
Having dealt with so many Pakistani web/graphic designers and photo retouchers back then, I don't think it is highly unlikely at all. There was such a competitive race to the bottom with graphic design work that I could have seen the Prime Minister's son, daughter or anyone in their network having had that font on their computer. At the time of this trial, I always had to laugh about the argument and wondered if I could present this reality as a third party to the trial, but then I saw that like every Pakistani Prime Minister is brought down this way and realized it has no bearing on my life whatsoever.
- arif_sohaib 8y ago
  I double Hamza Shahbaz or Mariam Nawaz even know how to use Word on a normal PC, let alone get and install beta software.
  - deltateam 8y ago
    Its not my problem that the defense never brought it up. Shows a real lack of imagination. "Actually we used to moonlight on Craigslist and routinely searched for fonts in leaked beta software to differentiate ourselves" Now I'm being facetious. But there are a lot of probable ways a font was added, ESPECIALLY for people that aren't good with computers. A toolbar added by a hacker group could have stolen fonts in it.