6 ms·

Elon Musk offers to help Thai cave rescue

54 points by unklefolk 8y ago

akerro 8y ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44695232 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44695232
lewisflude 8y ago
If he can make something happen, it'd be a huge win-win for everyone, not to mention insanely good PR for Tesla.
- compcoffee 8y ago
  >not to mention insanely good PR for Tesla. Yeah, good PR as a deflection of his Donald Trump routine the past couple days of attacking journalists who have criticized Tesla on Twitter: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1014964102672801792 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1014964102672801792 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1014923546210938880 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1014923546210938880 https://twitter.com/lopezlinette/status/1014983757252780033 https://twitter.com/lopezlinette/status/1014983757252780033 Business Insider has formally denied these allegations, but what does it matter in this day age of social media? The author is getting attacked by Tesla fans, death threats, misogynistic comments. It's off the rails. I don't know how people root for this guy, but here we are.
  - mulletbum 8y ago
    If they bring him in and he saves these people, I would hope you eat your words. Nobody is perfect, but Musk tends be serious when he offers to do something.
    - compcoffee 8y ago
      >If they bring him in and he saves these people, I would hope you eat your words. And if more journalists get murdered, I hope you eat yours.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
    - compcoffee 8y ago
      Hey, how is the Elon Musk rescue going?
caymanjim 8y ago
Cynics will say this is a PR move, but I don't think that's how Musk operates. I think he sees a problem, thinks it's being solved inefficiently, has ideas he considers better, and wants to act quickly. It's the foundation of all his companies. It's a bit of a renegade/cowboy mentality, and some caution is warranted, but he thinks outside the box and acts on it more than most people.
- compcoffee 8y ago
  >Cynics will say this is a PR move, but I don't think that's how Musk operates. You can't be serious... Musk's #1 trait, for better or worse, is promotion. Or do you really think he's the guy doing the engineering on all this stuff?
  - ericb 8y ago
    He says he spends the majority of his time on engineering, actually.
    - agumonkey 8y ago
      I dont know about others but I first heard of Musk as "the paypal guy who made a rocket". Felt like a sudden lucky-genius thing. Only recently I learned that he graduated in physics (energy storage or something not far). This changed my view of him substantially. He has flaws but I guess I can rely on his understanding of matter and moving objects.
      - compcoffee 8y ago
        >Only recently I learned that he graduated in physics (energy storage or something not far) He has an undergraduate degree in Physics. There is no focus on "energy storage".
        agumonkey 8y ago
        Sorry, material science in stanford, I didn't knoz he was at Upenn before that too and that he stopped at B.S (different terminology from France)
danso 8y ago
I don't really care even if he's doing this partly for pro-Tesla/Boring PR, it is nice to see such a prominent CEO take a public interest in this and other humanitarian problems (e.g. Puerto Rico disaster relief). Given his general tendency to speak out (for better or worse) about things having nothing to do with his work or business, I'm inclined to think his interest is personally genuine. Off-topic: I really like the BBC's illustrated map of the cave. For a static image, really gives a lot of info about the scale and severity of the situation: https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/146FC/production/_102380738_thai_cave_detailed_mapv2_976-nc.png https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/146FC/production...
- maxerickson 8y ago
  The real question is how high he gets before he injects himself into these situations. I like the part where they are at the bare end of their capabilities supplying food, water and air and Musky has them hauling in huge amounts of stuff that probably doesn't even exist.
  - sandworm101 8y ago
    I found his comments about them just walking out through a bouncy castle tube, or his flip remark about being good at digging holes, less than useful. He clearly doesnt understand the forces and dimensions involved. This isnt sunny/dry california.
    - tomp 8y ago
      Can you explain why? I think it's a smart idea, except getting the tube that size/strength of course...
      - sandworm101 8y ago
        Such a tube would need to be pressurized to the depth of the deepest water. It would also block the flow of water through pinch points, deepening and accelerating that water. Where is this magic tube? Then imagine trying to handle this pressurized tube in not-deep and/or dry parts of the cave. It is pure fantasy. A man died bringing an oxygen tank through this cave. Pulling 10,000lb rubber tube through that same hole?
ramblerman 8y ago
As easy as it is to find hidden motives, PR, advertising, etc. The truth is it also carries a huge risk. He is putting himself out there if they accept, and willing to take a shot. That has to be respected.
- danso 8y ago
  That was my first thought too. This is easily something that could backfire on Tesla/Boring if Thai officials take them up on their offer. It's already a very precarious situation and it may end up in tragedy despite any efforts from Musk or anyone. Sure, it's positive PR if things go well, but it's just as terrible if they don't.
- toomanybeersies 8y ago
  And if they decline, and the kids die, then he can say "At least I offered help"
slivym 8y ago
I'm not a big fan of this. If he wants to help, he knows who to ask, I'm sure they'd take his calls. If he wants to act like a big man on twitter... well he's doing a good job- and that's not really very impressive.
- danso 8y ago
  His most recent tweet (not cited in the original article): https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1015138953693880320 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1015138953693880320 > SpaceX & Boring Co engineers headed to Thailand tomorrow to see if we can be helpful to govt. There are probably many complexities that are hard to appreciate without being there in person.
- isostatic 8y ago
  Major decisions are communicated by CEOs, Presidents, etc on twitter first, welcome to the 21st century.
  - compcoffee 8y ago
    >Major decisions are communicated by CEOs, Presidents, etc on twitter first, welcome to the 21st century. Can you name anyone who uses Twitter this way besides Donald Trump and Elon Musk? Because, although I am not a lawyer, there are legal ramifications to disseminating information on social media. For example: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/23/donald-trump-cant-block-people-twitter-judge-rules/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/23/donald-trump-can...
eskpe 8y ago
Its really good that he can and wants to help, I can almost picture him shouting "Thunderbirds are go!"
toomanybeersies 8y ago
Is it really helpful for Elon Musk to spitball pie in the sky ideas on Twitter? What does this actually achieve beyond generating PR hype for Elon and his companies? If making a giant inflatable tunnel is a serious possibility, there are better ways to float the idea than throwing it out on Twitter.
- JStanton617 8y ago
  There are other ways, but why are they better? He says it out loud, other people can chime in and improve the idea, the Thai gov't sees it without him having to work his way up through a bureaucracy to find someone who can do something about it, etc. This seems as good a way as any to do it to me.
- agumonkey 8y ago
  I think that his twitter-hype did help in Australia's case. I'm annoyed by musk being all over the place touting technology. But as long as he doesn't impede the actual rescue why not. Also the tube idea is probably the fastest and easiest to sustain the group survival.
  - toomanybeersies 8y ago
    > Also the tube idea is probably the fastest and easiest to sustain the group survival. Is it? How much experience do you have in cave rescues? How much experience does Elon have in cave rescues? What if they go with his suggestion, due to pressure from the publicity, and it turns into a disaster?
    - agumonkey 8y ago
      First keep calm. Second diagrams showed they were thinking about drilling down (1/4 of a mile deep). I can't imagine drilling being safer than passing a tube to the chamber. I have no experience nor knowledge. I still claim that. ps: I don't think Thai government is stupid to just follow some random celebrity. They have educated people there too. Musk is only saying he has drilling machines and powerbanks... that's all.
Nokinside 8y ago
It's OK to offer help and make a statement that you are offering help. It's bad idea to pitch solutions publicly on Twitter. Musk could contact the rescuers and provide solution options privately. It's very easy to create chaos and political pressure when politicians, relatives and others are demanding why are you not doing like Musk says.
- mulletbum 8y ago
  "Musk could contact the rescuers and provide solution options privately." How? What if he doesn't have contacts and doesn't want one of his assistants putting a bunch of time into finding the single contact needed. He literally talked to them instantly, anyone who knows the people working on this can get back to him directly, Musk didn't even know their name.
  - Nokinside 8y ago
    It's very easy to make these contacts quicly if you are recognized entity in the field. Call to Thai embassy would be the first step.
mrkgnao 8y ago
Partly PR (like everything he does) and such unflattering things, but also partly an exercise of the ability (read "ubiquitous nerd dream" if you like) of thinking up outrageous solutions to pressing problems (e.g. inflatable "bouncy castle" air tunnel), which in this case differs from the usual in that said nerd is very rich (and also owns technology and employs people with skills appropriate to the problem) so the outrageous solution has some chance of actually being implemented in the real world This differs from the option mentioned by someone else of "calling the right people" (perhaps by donating a chunk of money to send conventional rescue personnel/equipment) instead of flashily taking matters into his own hands: this is a display of ingenuity/out-of-the-box thinking/"a tunnel-making company that everyone says is a bad idea saved actual lives, see?" first (again, read something like "nerd saviourism" or a restricted form of "tech solutionism" if you like) and philanthropy second. Similar idea to pushing his batteries in Puerto Rico, and also explains his lack of interest in Flint (often mentioned on Twitter) or similar humanitarian concerns, and hence his difference from a certain "philanthropic billionaire" stereotype exemplified by Gates and Buffett: he doesn't own a company that claims it can purify water in a way everyone thinks is either overpriced or stupid, so "those things would prove nothing". (A silly prediction along these lines: if there ever is some sort of emergency in the near future that requires transporting something very quickly from A to B, faster than a cargo airplane (and insert other wildly improbable things here), I'd expect him to offer to do the "NYC to Tokyo in 30 min" thing for free.)
ericnyamu 8y ago
If he's offering help free of charge then thats nice but ofcourse he's not
ericnyamu 8y ago
If he's offering help free of charge then thats nice but ofcourse he's not.he thinks every disaster is an advert space.
matell 8y ago
I like the engineering side of the problem. if I understand it properly, the greatest danger is that even when two professional divers will accompany each boy through the passage, if that child panicks in a narrow underwater section, there is risk both three may get drown. I imagine that they can try to infuse each child with some calm-down preparate to prevent panick, in such a manner that child will be still able to use his own muscles to walk.
avcdsuia 8y ago
Speaking as a caving hobbyist, I think it's rather stupid. Yes you can tweet about your ideas but that doesn't make you actually helped because there's no sign of you being a speleology specialist or any other expertises of wilderness rescue. Those are prior requirements to differ you from a normal guy in the web. Here's a proper rescue case [0], althought there's no cave diving involved. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riesending_cave_rescue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riesending_cave_rescue
em3rgent0rdr 8y ago
It is great that he is volunteering to help, but him publicly presenting himself as a savior prior to actually accomplishing the solutions makes me just roll my eyes and think less of him for doing anything for the limelight. Sure if he does go out and solves the problem, then afterwards is the proper time to put out a press release and brag. I'm still waiting for him to work out the kinks with his cars' autopilot and get his promised "hyperloop" that he loves talking about finally deployed.
dayaz36 8y ago
Why is this thread flagged?
- tomhoward 8y ago
  I flagged it because it's high on controversy (repetitive debating of Elon Musk's motives and merits) and low on intellectual curiosity - which is what is meant to be HN's core focus.

54 points by unklefolk 8y ago

akerro 8y ago

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44695232 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44695232

lewisflude 8y ago

If he can make something happen, it'd be a huge win-win for everyone, not to mention insanely good PR for Tesla.

compcoffee 8y ago
>not to mention insanely good PR for Tesla. Yeah, good PR as a deflection of his Donald Trump routine the past couple days of attacking journalists who have criticized Tesla on Twitter: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1014964102672801792 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1014964102672801792 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1014923546210938880 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1014923546210938880 https://twitter.com/lopezlinette/status/1014983757252780033 https://twitter.com/lopezlinette/status/1014983757252780033 Business Insider has formally denied these allegations, but what does it matter in this day age of social media? The author is getting attacked by Tesla fans, death threats, misogynistic comments. It's off the rails. I don't know how people root for this guy, but here we are.
- mulletbum 8y ago
  If they bring him in and he saves these people, I would hope you eat your words. Nobody is perfect, but Musk tends be serious when he offers to do something.
  - compcoffee 8y ago
    >If they bring him in and he saves these people, I would hope you eat your words. And if more journalists get murdered, I hope you eat yours.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - compcoffee 8y ago
    Hey, how is the Elon Musk rescue going?

caymanjim 8y ago

Cynics will say this is a PR move, but I don't think that's how Musk operates. I think he sees a problem, thinks it's being solved inefficiently, has ideas he considers better, and wants to act quickly. It's the foundation of all his companies. It's a bit of a renegade/cowboy mentality, and some caution is warranted, but he thinks outside the box and acts on it more than most people.

compcoffee 8y ago
>Cynics will say this is a PR move, but I don't think that's how Musk operates. You can't be serious... Musk's #1 trait, for better or worse, is promotion. Or do you really think he's the guy doing the engineering on all this stuff?
- ericb 8y ago
  He says he spends the majority of his time on engineering, actually.
  - agumonkey 8y ago
    I dont know about others but I first heard of Musk as "the paypal guy who made a rocket". Felt like a sudden lucky-genius thing. Only recently I learned that he graduated in physics (energy storage or something not far). This changed my view of him substantially. He has flaws but I guess I can rely on his understanding of matter and moving objects.
    - compcoffee 8y ago
      >Only recently I learned that he graduated in physics (energy storage or something not far) He has an undergraduate degree in Physics. There is no focus on "energy storage".
      - agumonkey 8y ago
        Sorry, material science in stanford, I didn't knoz he was at Upenn before that too and that he stopped at B.S (different terminology from France)

danso 8y ago

I don't really care even if he's doing this partly for pro-Tesla/Boring PR, it is nice to see such a prominent CEO take a public interest in this and other humanitarian problems (e.g. Puerto Rico disaster relief). Given his general tendency to speak out (for better or worse) about things having nothing to do with his work or business, I'm inclined to think his interest is personally genuine. Off-topic: I really like the BBC's illustrated map of the cave. For a static image, really gives a lot of info about the scale and severity of the situation: https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/146FC/production/_102380738_thai_cave_detailed_mapv2_976-nc.png https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/146FC/production...

maxerickson 8y ago
The real question is how high he gets before he injects himself into these situations. I like the part where they are at the bare end of their capabilities supplying food, water and air and Musky has them hauling in huge amounts of stuff that probably doesn't even exist.
- sandworm101 8y ago
  I found his comments about them just walking out through a bouncy castle tube, or his flip remark about being good at digging holes, less than useful. He clearly doesnt understand the forces and dimensions involved. This isnt sunny/dry california.
  - tomp 8y ago
    Can you explain why? I think it's a smart idea, except getting the tube that size/strength of course...
    - sandworm101 8y ago
      Such a tube would need to be pressurized to the depth of the deepest water. It would also block the flow of water through pinch points, deepening and accelerating that water. Where is this magic tube? Then imagine trying to handle this pressurized tube in not-deep and/or dry parts of the cave. It is pure fantasy. A man died bringing an oxygen tank through this cave. Pulling 10,000lb rubber tube through that same hole?

ramblerman 8y ago

As easy as it is to find hidden motives, PR, advertising, etc. The truth is it also carries a huge risk. He is putting himself out there if they accept, and willing to take a shot. That has to be respected.

danso 8y ago
That was my first thought too. This is easily something that could backfire on Tesla/Boring if Thai officials take them up on their offer. It's already a very precarious situation and it may end up in tragedy despite any efforts from Musk or anyone. Sure, it's positive PR if things go well, but it's just as terrible if they don't.
toomanybeersies 8y ago
And if they decline, and the kids die, then he can say "At least I offered help"

slivym 8y ago

I'm not a big fan of this. If he wants to help, he knows who to ask, I'm sure they'd take his calls. If he wants to act like a big man on twitter... well he's doing a good job- and that's not really very impressive.

danso 8y ago
His most recent tweet (not cited in the original article): https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1015138953693880320 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1015138953693880320 > SpaceX & Boring Co engineers headed to Thailand tomorrow to see if we can be helpful to govt. There are probably many complexities that are hard to appreciate without being there in person.
isostatic 8y ago
Major decisions are communicated by CEOs, Presidents, etc on twitter first, welcome to the 21st century.
- compcoffee 8y ago
  >Major decisions are communicated by CEOs, Presidents, etc on twitter first, welcome to the 21st century. Can you name anyone who uses Twitter this way besides Donald Trump and Elon Musk? Because, although I am not a lawyer, there are legal ramifications to disseminating information on social media. For example: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/23/donald-trump-cant-block-people-twitter-judge-rules/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/23/donald-trump-can...

eskpe 8y ago

Its really good that he can and wants to help, I can almost picture him shouting "Thunderbirds are go!"

toomanybeersies 8y ago

Is it really helpful for Elon Musk to spitball pie in the sky ideas on Twitter? What does this actually achieve beyond generating PR hype for Elon and his companies? If making a giant inflatable tunnel is a serious possibility, there are better ways to float the idea than throwing it out on Twitter.

JStanton617 8y ago
There are other ways, but why are they better? He says it out loud, other people can chime in and improve the idea, the Thai gov't sees it without him having to work his way up through a bureaucracy to find someone who can do something about it, etc. This seems as good a way as any to do it to me.
agumonkey 8y ago
I think that his twitter-hype did help in Australia's case. I'm annoyed by musk being all over the place touting technology. But as long as he doesn't impede the actual rescue why not. Also the tube idea is probably the fastest and easiest to sustain the group survival.
- toomanybeersies 8y ago
  > Also the tube idea is probably the fastest and easiest to sustain the group survival. Is it? How much experience do you have in cave rescues? How much experience does Elon have in cave rescues? What if they go with his suggestion, due to pressure from the publicity, and it turns into a disaster?
  - agumonkey 8y ago
    First keep calm. Second diagrams showed they were thinking about drilling down (1/4 of a mile deep). I can't imagine drilling being safer than passing a tube to the chamber. I have no experience nor knowledge. I still claim that. ps: I don't think Thai government is stupid to just follow some random celebrity. They have educated people there too. Musk is only saying he has drilling machines and powerbanks... that's all.

Nokinside 8y ago

It's OK to offer help and make a statement that you are offering help. It's bad idea to pitch solutions publicly on Twitter. Musk could contact the rescuers and provide solution options privately. It's very easy to create chaos and political pressure when politicians, relatives and others are demanding why are you not doing like Musk says.

mulletbum 8y ago
"Musk could contact the rescuers and provide solution options privately." How? What if he doesn't have contacts and doesn't want one of his assistants putting a bunch of time into finding the single contact needed. He literally talked to them instantly, anyone who knows the people working on this can get back to him directly, Musk didn't even know their name.
- Nokinside 8y ago
  It's very easy to make these contacts quicly if you are recognized entity in the field. Call to Thai embassy would be the first step.

mrkgnao 8y ago

Partly PR (like everything he does) and such unflattering things, but also partly an exercise of the ability (read "ubiquitous nerd dream" if you like) of thinking up outrageous solutions to pressing problems (e.g. inflatable "bouncy castle" air tunnel), which in this case differs from the usual in that said nerd is very rich (and also owns technology and employs people with skills appropriate to the problem) so the outrageous solution has some chance of actually being implemented in the real world This differs from the option mentioned by someone else of "calling the right people" (perhaps by donating a chunk of money to send conventional rescue personnel/equipment) instead of flashily taking matters into his own hands: this is a display of ingenuity/out-of-the-box thinking/"a tunnel-making company that everyone says is a bad idea saved actual lives, see?" first (again, read something like "nerd saviourism" or a restricted form of "tech solutionism" if you like) and philanthropy second. Similar idea to pushing his batteries in Puerto Rico, and also explains his lack of interest in Flint (often mentioned on Twitter) or similar humanitarian concerns, and hence his difference from a certain "philanthropic billionaire" stereotype exemplified by Gates and Buffett: he doesn't own a company that claims it can purify water in a way everyone thinks is either overpriced or stupid, so "those things would prove nothing". (A silly prediction along these lines: if there ever is some sort of emergency in the near future that requires transporting something very quickly from A to B, faster than a cargo airplane (and insert other wildly improbable things here), I'd expect him to offer to do the "NYC to Tokyo in 30 min" thing for free.)

ericnyamu 8y ago

If he's offering help free of charge then thats nice but ofcourse he's not

ericnyamu 8y ago

If he's offering help free of charge then thats nice but ofcourse he's not.he thinks every disaster is an advert space.

matell 8y ago

I like the engineering side of the problem. if I understand it properly, the greatest danger is that even when two professional divers will accompany each boy through the passage, if that child panicks in a narrow underwater section, there is risk both three may get drown. I imagine that they can try to infuse each child with some calm-down preparate to prevent panick, in such a manner that child will be still able to use his own muscles to walk.

avcdsuia 8y ago

Speaking as a caving hobbyist, I think it's rather stupid. Yes you can tweet about your ideas but that doesn't make you actually helped because there's no sign of you being a speleology specialist or any other expertises of wilderness rescue. Those are prior requirements to differ you from a normal guy in the web. Here's a proper rescue case [0], althought there's no cave diving involved. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riesending_cave_rescue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riesending_cave_rescue

em3rgent0rdr 8y ago

It is great that he is volunteering to help, but him publicly presenting himself as a savior prior to actually accomplishing the solutions makes me just roll my eyes and think less of him for doing anything for the limelight. Sure if he does go out and solves the problem, then afterwards is the proper time to put out a press release and brag. I'm still waiting for him to work out the kinks with his cars' autopilot and get his promised "hyperloop" that he loves talking about finally deployed.

dayaz36 8y ago

Why is this thread flagged?

tomhoward 8y ago
I flagged it because it's high on controversy (repetitive debating of Elon Musk's motives and merits) and low on intellectual curiosity - which is what is meant to be HN's core focus.