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How a Microsoft Font Brought Down Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif (2017)
- huntertwo 8y agoThat’s really funny. Don’t think I’ve ever seen Calibri on any legal document now that I think of it.
- thewizardofaus 8y agoThey should have used Comic sans. Released 1994.
- xbmcuser 8y agoThere a saying in Urdu (Pakistani Language) Nakal ke liye Bhi Akal Chaye i.e Even to cheat you need brains.
- ccozan 8y agoI guess Courier would be the standart choice, right? At least most of the official and semi official papers I've seen were typed in a variant of it.
- Freak_NL 8y agoA large part of that seems due to inertia; these kind of documents have always been typeset in a monospaced font, so there is bound to be a good reason for it — or so the mindset goes. That reason usually boils down to 'because that's what it looked with typewriters before we switched to desktop publishing'. In the US Courier stuck, in other countries it was Times New Roman with bad default choices for leading, font size, and line width. Legal and government typography for Latin alphabet based scripts seems to mostly be substandard everywhere.
- cm2187 8y agoJudicial experts in France love to make reports with fancy fonts.
- et2o 8y agoMy quick Google was unsuccessful. Care to provide an example?
- cm2187 8y agoThat's what I found on google [1]. I am not in that profession but the TV show "Faites entrer l'accuse" often shows extracts of medical or psychological reports, and they often use a font of that kind, sort of intermediary between hand-writing and machine type. Certainly not the default font of any text editor I am aware of. [1] http://pedophilie-castres.over-blog.com/article-piece-n-3-quand-un-expert-oriente-les-accusations-vers-la-mere-96043535.html http://pedophilie-castres.over-blog.com/article-piece-n-3-qu...
- et2o 8y agoThank you! Very interesting
- ChicagoBoy11 8y agoCurious how/who noticed the font detail and knew enough that it could help date the document. However, couldn't the machine identification code from the printer reveal exactly when the document was printed?
- nobrains 8y agoIt was identified by the JIT (join investigation team) established by the supreme court to look at the case. And Robert W. Radley of London-based The Radley Forensic Document Laboratory was the person who helped in identifying it. Source: https://www.dawn.com/news/1344654 https://www.dawn.com/news/1344654
- pknerd 8y agoThey hired the services of the expert who identified the font.
- lkbm 8y agoIt's an ice reminder that "given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow" extends beyond computer programming. Another example: IMDB has a goof documented for the Bourne Supremacy wherein the fluorescent lamp is humming at 60Hz, instead of the 50Hz appropriate for Goa, India: https://twitter.com/deeaen/status/961369721571627009 https://twitter.com/deeaen/status/961369721571627009
- baybal2 8y agoBTW, Avenfield reference case verdict has just been pronounced. Literally few minutes ago: Nawaz gets 10 years!
- philbarr 8y agoLink for the curious: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44737793 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44737793
- degenerate 8y agoGood. Corruption needs jail time, not just fines.
- hutzlibu 8y agoOnly if the same standard is held to everyone. I don't know any details about this case nor pakistans situation in general, but I know that in most corrupt states, corruption trials are usually used in a power struggle, where one corrupt side brings down the other side, and just has their own corpses better buried and/or is connected better to the investigators/secret intelligence.
- icebraining 8y agoEh, better the powerful bringing each other down than united against the people.
- hutzlibu 8y agoHm, but it is not like the evil powerful ones would go away this way. Besides, I don't mind "the powerful" per se. What matters to me is what people do with their power. Whetter it be much power or little. Also with little power you can do bad things. So I like a fair trial for everyone, no matter the power/money.
- nobrains 8y agoNawaz 10 years jail. His daughter, who faked the document, 7 years in jail. Millions in fines. Apartments in question to be returned to government.
- userbinator 8y agoIt's like watching a movie set in the 1950s and noticing someone in the background walking past with his head looking down at a smartphone.
- ChrisRR 8y agoThat's called an anachronism.
- amp108 8y agoWe're not talking about movies with a giant snake.
- arif_sohaib 8y agoFinally a comment about the article and not about Pakistan.
- emeth 8y agoLike this Charlie Chaplin 1928 movie, with a time traveler talking into a cell phone walking by? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU_k4yGPeOI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU_k4yGPeOI
- chungy 8y agoGood luck getting cell reception in 1928 :)
- amriksohata 8y agoPakistan is not a democracy, it is run by the military regardless of who is in power, the ISI it's it's real head of state, which have a pro-islamist agenda but with a slightly modern outlook for economic growth. Regardless if he did any wrongdoing, there have been far worse acts by politicians in Pakistan and they have got away with it.
- amingilani 8y agoThat may have been true a few decades ago, but it's certainly becoming more democratic.. still not the best, though. Especially with the military curb circulations of a private national newspaper.
- baybal2 8y agoAttack on Dawn and Geo were first of a kind after 5 years lull. In last 5 years, Pakistan saw, well, nothing less than an explosion in privately owned press and TV channels.
- arif_sohaib 8y agoNot last 5 years. That was mostly under an actual dictator Perviz Musharraff. That period was more democratic than after him which removed all power for local governments and probably more censorship/bans by PEMRA, our media regulatory agency. I think people are too quick to judge other countries through their lens. This is as true for some of us Pakistanis judging to the west through our cultural lens.
- baybal2 8y ago>This is as true for some of us Pakistanis judging to the west through our cultural lens. Am I? Well, media curbs were then and now, but have you noticed a very apparent change in tone? Yes, there were already quite a few private medias by late Musharaf, but back then news section was nearly the same all across them. Aside from the usual aha, aha, nod, nod, in news coverage of the junta, they just varied in kinds of entertainment content. But once Mush was gone, it was only then for the first time in decades that news became somewhat resembling what they are supposed to be.
- philliphaydon 8y agoIf it was released in beta of longhorn in 2004 couldn’t they have still legitimately created the doc???
- chris_wot 8y agoThe first public beta was released on June 6, 2006.
- philliphaydon 8y ago> It was first presented in a 2004 beta of Windows Vista, then codenamed Longhorn According to Wikipedia. Hence my question. Even tho it wasn’t yet part of office could it have been selected if it was installed on the OS?
- ChrisRR 8y agochris_wot is saying that the first public beta was in 2006, so a beta in 2004 would have been internal to Microsoft (ignoring any leaked versions)
- philliphaydon 8y agoAccording to Wikipedia it shipped with longhorn beta in 2004, but was part of office 2007 beta in 2006. So even tho you couldn’t get it on windows xp at the time. If you were using a beta version of longhorn with office 2003 you could in theory use the font... That’s my thinking. I just donno if that would work.
- nobrains 8y agoEven if it was, it would beg the question of probability of them (1) installing and using the beta and (2) somehow selecting an obscure font and (3) the font ends up becoming the default font years later.
- hutzlibu 8y ago
- chris_wot 8y agoHaha! Sans Sharif indeed!
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- ankit219 8y agoPakistan acted on the Panama papers is a big news since a lot of countries with allegedly a hard stance against corruption did not.
- nobrains 8y agoIt was mostly due to the efforts of one man, Imran Khan.
- arif_sohaib 8y agoYep. Hopefully he wins the current elections. Me and my whole family waited hours in lines to vote for him last elections.
- projectramo 8y agoHe may be less corrupt than the others but I wish his go-to move wasn't to block traffic to express his displeasure with every policy decision.
- fish_bizkit 8y agoHypothetically speaking, what will your reaction be if he loses this time too? Will you (personally) accept his defeat and wait for the next election or will you take to the streets and protest against the election results like 2014 (given Khan calls his supports out)? I am only trying to get the feel of Pakistani politics here, no personal bias.
- xbmcuser 8y agoUnlikley as all the other major parties have got their hands tied currently I am more worried about what happens when he goes against the army will he able to or will an army dictator rise again.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
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- baybal2 8y agoPretty much live coverage of that for the last hour: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQu5n7Nh42Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQu5n7Nh42Y Given the channel is pro PTI, half of it is about Imran's people rawing hard on the streets.
- baybal2 8y agoMore coverage of today's court proceedings: https://www.dawn.com/news/1418326/guilty-nawaz-10-years-in-jail-maryam-7 https://www.dawn.com/news/1418326/guilty-nawaz-10-years-in-j... https://www.geo.tv/latest/201862-avenfield-reference-verdict-against-nawaz-sharif-family-at-3pm-now https://www.geo.tv/latest/201862-avenfield-reference-verdict...
- J-Kuhn 8y agotl;dr: Forged document claims to be from 2006, uses a font (Calibri) that was introduced 2007. Newsletters headline: "Sans Sharif".
- master_ant 8y agoWith a name like that how can you not make the pun :)
- merricksb 8y agoDiscussion from about a year ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14751358 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14751358
- pressurefree 8y agosans-whispy
- zenovision 8y agoAlmost every printed document also have hidden yellow dots that allows you to get certain information about that document (print date, print model etc...)
- Froyoh 8y agoEven monochrome printers?
- sjm-lbm 8y agoThe scandal wasn't near as big, but a similar issue arose during the 2004 US Presidential election. Documents claiming to be from the early 1970s about George W Bush's air national guard service were found to use things like proportional-width fonts - and, indeed, the entire document seems to have just been typed using the default settings for a contemporary version of Word. Here's some details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killian_documents_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killian_documents_controversy
- perl4ever 8y agoThe letters were short, so someone could easily have retyped them in Word. Did anyone old enough to have used a typewriter seriously claim they were photocopies of 70s era typewritten documents? Surely Dan Rather of all people must have some experience with typewriters.
- djrogers 8y agoYes, on air Dan Rather did in fact claim they were taken directly from Killian’s files and had been ‘authenticated’. The person who sent them to 60 Minutes also claimed they were originals, which he subsequently burned after faxing. CBS then spent the next couple of weeks in a ‘strident defense’ (their own investigators’ words) of the documents and their use, before ceding they screwed up and firing people over the incident. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killian_documents_controversy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killian_documents_controvers...
- rrauenza 8y agoCulturally, this to me is a turning point of the political bloggers -- the knee in the curve of their credibility and a large drop in the trust of the news media, particularly among conservatives. The blogs leading the document debunking were Powerline and Little Green Footballs. This was also when the term Pajamas Media was coined (quote from wikipedia PJ_Media page): > The network's original name was derived from a dismissive comment made by former CBS news executive Jonathan Klein during the 2004 Killian documents affair: "You couldn't have a starker contrast between the multiple layers of checks and balances at 60 Minutes and a guy sitting in his living room in his pajamas." I followed the whole thing closely at the time -- it was a bit surreal.
- maxpert 8y agoI’ve been following this case from the beginning. I think in a country like Pakistan it’s a huge accomplishment! Pakistan is known for its corrupt leaders because they control the system inside out this is probably the first time law is being upheld and people are backing it.
- nashashmi 8y agoIt's not over yet. The person is still in London.
- Salamat 8y agoMicrosoft bought a pirate Arabic font because they would not pay the orginal owner- Boutros Fonts, his asking price, and got away with it.
- unaaaa 8y agoWould using the hidden printer tracking dots/stenography also work to disprove the documents age?
- baybal2 8y agoLooks like that Zardari is next: https://www.dawn.com/news/1418348/eminent-banker-and-zardari-aide-hussain-lawai-taken-into-custody-by-fia-reports https://www.dawn.com/news/1418348/eminent-banker-and-zardari... Hussain Lawai - Zardari's personal banker. There can't be anybody with more dirt on "the Beast" than him.
- m23khan 8y agoThis may not amount to much for Pakistani people. The forces and judiciary are so pathetically weak that they couldn't force the PM and his Daughter and his sons to remain inside of Pakistan - so what if the PM's wife is sick in London (which we don't even know if it's true) - let her die alone because she and her life is worthless for Pakistani people. For months the PM's daughter barked daily in front of masses against the judiciary yet received full security protocol and no judge's order was put forward to muzzle her rabid speeches. And then there is the magical softening of stance overnight and miracle reduction of punishments which Pakistani judges are famous for - absolute joke. I won't be surprised at all if at the end of day, all he gets is a 'warning' and 'stern lecture'. Finally, PM in question and his family aren't the only corrupt folks in Pakistan - the other 'dynasty' is the PPP-clan of Bhuttos/Zardaris -- now watch them flee scotch-free from Pakistan. And the icing on cake - UK/UAE/Swiss are among nations which actively harbor corrupt and dangerous Pakistani individuals, have granted them/their families citizenship, and allow them to bring their illegal wealth - these Govts will not send the wealth or the individuals back to Pakistan. Perhaps Pakistani ISI should learn from Israel's Mossad.
- gadders 8y agoSlightly offtopic, but this [1] is a great series of podcasts about the assassination of Benazir Bhutto. No idea if she would have made a good leader, but she was certainly brave. Even if you're not interested in Pakistani politics, it's still fascinating. [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05r6cgx/episodes/downloads https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05r6cgx/episodes/downloads
- m23khan 8y agoHow was she brave? She was born into a political dynasty. Used the platform laid down by her Daddy to jumpstart her own political career. Lived a privileged, pampered life. Brokered deals with the scum Taliban to help further her ambitions. Under her party the economy ALWAYS suffer and corruption increases. It is better to take a tennis ball, declare it the next PM+Emperor-for-life of Pakistan then anybody from the Bhutto party PPP.
- arif_sohaib 8y ago
- fish_bizkit 8y agoHere's another one. This guy spent 2.6 million Rupees on tea and biscuits. With the bill of bakery items for one TV channel's interview team being 175000 Rupees. https://www.thenews.com.pk/archive/print/641087-kp-cm-spends-rs2.6m-on-entertainment,-bakery-items https://www.thenews.com.pk/archive/print/641087-kp-cm-spends... https://www.urdupoint.com/en/pakistan/bill-of-tea-provided-by-pervez-khattak-to-jir-389727.html https://www.urdupoint.com/en/pakistan/bill-of-tea-provided-b...