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Mint focused on making the user do almost no work at all...Their approach completely kicked our approach's ass...Changing people's behavior is really hard Hmmm

by edw519 16y ago

Mint focused on making the user do almost no work at all...Their approach completely kicked our approach's ass...Changing people's behavior is really hard Hmmm, reminds me of an old saying, "When in doubt, leave it out." Now I'm going back to all my forms and mockups, wondering if there's anything else that can be removed. Short attention spans, human nature, and plain old laziness make "Keep It Simple Stupid" more relevant than ever. A domain name doesn't win you a market; launching second or fifth or tenth doesn't lose you a market. You can't blame your competitors or your board or the lack of or excess of investment. Focus on what really matters: making users happy with your product as quickly as you can, and helping them as much as you can after that. If you do those better than anyone else out there you'll win. Bulletin board material. Front and center. (I really should be spending more time writing code and less worrying about the market or reading Hacker News.) [EDIT: We complain a lot here about "survivor bias". This is an excellent post and a great counterexample with much to be learned. Wesabe may have lost, but AFAIC, Marc is most definitely a winner.]

ryanwaggoner 16y ago
I really should be spending more time writing code and less worrying about the market or reading Hacker News. I couldn't disagree more. Worrying about your market is how you know what to code. I think the number of startups who fail because they don't get sales, marketing, and product-market fit outnumber those who fail because they didn't write enough code or good enough code 100:1.
- edw519 16y ago
  Worrying about your market is how you know what to code. You're absolutely right, Ryan, in theory all the time and in practice most of the time. But there are exceptions... OP is an exception. When it came to understanding his market and satisfying their needs he did so many things right and still got his ass kicked. By someone who "dumbed it down". I can't tell you how many times I've beaten enterprisey competitors with teams of marketing and domain experts because the customer understood my simple offering over their complex one. I really hate that old Henry Ford quote, "If I had asked my customers what they wanted, they would have said 'faster horses,'" but there's a grain of truth in it. At some point, you just gotta stop asking everyone what they think, say "fuck it", build what you think is right, get it out there, and find out for real. I believe I'm at that point, that's all. Whether others think they're also at that point is for them to decide for themselves.
  - ryanwaggoner 16y ago
    Fair enough; I understand that there are a variety of cases, and I was responding to what I perceived when I read it as a general statement, rather than a self-assessment of your particular situation. because the customer understood my simple offering over their complex one This is a good example of a better product-market fit. My problem is that I have a tendency to do what a lot of hacker-entrepreneurs do: hack. But that's often not what's most needed.
  - cobrophy 16y ago
    What I take from the Henry Ford quote is that you shouldn't ask people what your core business or product should be. However once you know what it is you should absolutely talk to them to improve it.
- precipice 16y ago
  I talked about both of these needs in a post in 2006, when I was wrestling with exactly these issues: http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2006/03/entrepreneurial-proverbs.html http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2006/03/entrepreneurial-pr...

by edw519 16y ago

ryanwaggoner 16y ago

I really should be spending more time writing code and less worrying about the market or reading Hacker News. I couldn't disagree more. Worrying about your market is how you know what to code. I think the number of startups who fail because they don't get sales, marketing, and product-market fit outnumber those who fail because they didn't write enough code or good enough code 100:1.

edw519 16y ago
Worrying about your market is how you know what to code. You're absolutely right, Ryan, in theory all the time and in practice most of the time. But there are exceptions... OP is an exception. When it came to understanding his market and satisfying their needs he did so many things right and still got his ass kicked. By someone who "dumbed it down". I can't tell you how many times I've beaten enterprisey competitors with teams of marketing and domain experts because the customer understood my simple offering over their complex one. I really hate that old Henry Ford quote, "If I had asked my customers what they wanted, they would have said 'faster horses,'" but there's a grain of truth in it. At some point, you just gotta stop asking everyone what they think, say "fuck it", build what you think is right, get it out there, and find out for real. I believe I'm at that point, that's all. Whether others think they're also at that point is for them to decide for themselves.
- ryanwaggoner 16y ago
  Fair enough; I understand that there are a variety of cases, and I was responding to what I perceived when I read it as a general statement, rather than a self-assessment of your particular situation. because the customer understood my simple offering over their complex one This is a good example of a better product-market fit. My problem is that I have a tendency to do what a lot of hacker-entrepreneurs do: hack. But that's often not what's most needed.
- cobrophy 16y ago
  What I take from the Henry Ford quote is that you shouldn't ask people what your core business or product should be. However once you know what it is you should absolutely talk to them to improve it.
precipice 16y ago
I talked about both of these needs in a post in 2006, when I was wrestling with exactly these issues: http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2006/03/entrepreneurial-proverbs.html http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2006/03/entrepreneurial-pr...