3 ms·

> "Many Americans avoid "fake meat" due to their cultural beliefs." Can you elaborate on this? Downthread you mention not eating tofu or veggie burgers is due

by grzm 8y ago

> "Many Americans avoid "fake meat" due to their cultural beliefs." Can you elaborate on this? Downthread you mention not eating tofu or veggie burgers is due to avoidance of plants. This seems a peculiar way to phrase it. While many Americans probably don't get enough fresh vegetables and fruits, many still do include various vegetables and fruits and grains in their diets. While I do agree that it's culture in the sense that diet does tend to be cultural, "avoidance of plants" or "avoidance of fake meat" due to cultural beliefs seems a particularly odd phrasing. Culinary customs might be better? (I'm trying anemically to think of some parallel characterization of another cultural group, but doing so seems unhelpful.)

phil248 8y ago
I'm surprised this is at all controversial. Many Americans believe that vegetarianism and veganism are wrong and even offensive belief systems. The foods those people eat instead of meat are part of this wrong belief system, and no 'normal' person who doesn't believe in that system would want to eat those foods. Tofu and veggie burgers being the two biggest offenders. In my experience, people outside of the big metro areas are not at all shy about sharing the above perspective. Source: I lived in the Midwest as a vegetarian.
- grzm 8y ago
  > "Many Americans believe that vegetarianism and veganism are wrong and even offensive belief systems." These are really strong words. You're also now conflating people who aren't vegetarian with a general dislike of plant food. Someone can be an omnivore and include a lot of plants in their diet. I think most people also think that including plant-based foods in their diet is a good thing (and wish they did more of), even if it's not something they do in their everyday diet. I've heard of people disagree with strong moralistic positions for vegetarianism/veganism and think strident/militant vegetarians/vegans are "kooky" and are put off by them, but this is due to the stridency, militant, and evangelical nature of those expressing such positions rather than something inherent in vegetarianism/veganism. I can't recall every hearing someone express that vegetarianism is offensive. I've heard people express that vegetarian/vegan diets don't provide full nutrition, so in that sense they think it's wrong, but that's much different from thinking it's morally wrong or offensive. Sure, you'll get people who aren't tolerant of others viewpoints, but that's generally due to intolerance in general (and on many sides and issues), rather than something inherent in the particular position. And when someone is perceived to have a chip on their shoulder, there's always someone who just wants to push it off for no other reason than that it's there. You can use "many Americans" to mean many things: there's a lot of people in America, so even a small percentage sharing a particular belief is going to be a lot of people. If you have numbers to support your views, I'd be interested in hearing them. To my reading, you may be particularly sensitive on this issue and in at least some cases reading more into some behavior and statements than may be warranted. Have a black bean burger and some tempeh on me!
  - toomanybeersies 8y ago
    If you're with a group of people at a restaurant that you don't know well and someone says they're gluten free, nobody bats an eye. Even though there's a good chance they're just on a fad diet. If someone can't eat pork due to their beliefs, same story. If someone mentions that they're vegetarian/vegan though, guaranteed someone will ask them why and question their beliefs. They'll probably get defensive and state that they could never give up eating steak/bacon/misc flesh, as if the vegetarian is trying to take that away from them.
    - grzm 8y ago
      I disagree that it's guaranteed, but even if that is the case, what you describe here is a far cry from Many Americans believe that vegetarianism and veganism are wrong and even offensive belief systems, Many Americans avoid "fake meat" due to their cultural beliefs, and Many Americans avoid eating things made out of plants. People may question vegetarianism and veganism while these statements can still be false.

by grzm 8y ago

phil248 8y ago

I'm surprised this is at all controversial. Many Americans believe that vegetarianism and veganism are wrong and even offensive belief systems. The foods those people eat instead of meat are part of this wrong belief system, and no 'normal' person who doesn't believe in that system would want to eat those foods. Tofu and veggie burgers being the two biggest offenders. In my experience, people outside of the big metro areas are not at all shy about sharing the above perspective. Source: I lived in the Midwest as a vegetarian.

grzm 8y ago
> "Many Americans believe that vegetarianism and veganism are wrong and even offensive belief systems." These are really strong words. You're also now conflating people who aren't vegetarian with a general dislike of plant food. Someone can be an omnivore and include a lot of plants in their diet. I think most people also think that including plant-based foods in their diet is a good thing (and wish they did more of), even if it's not something they do in their everyday diet. I've heard of people disagree with strong moralistic positions for vegetarianism/veganism and think strident/militant vegetarians/vegans are "kooky" and are put off by them, but this is due to the stridency, militant, and evangelical nature of those expressing such positions rather than something inherent in vegetarianism/veganism. I can't recall every hearing someone express that vegetarianism is offensive. I've heard people express that vegetarian/vegan diets don't provide full nutrition, so in that sense they think it's wrong, but that's much different from thinking it's morally wrong or offensive. Sure, you'll get people who aren't tolerant of others viewpoints, but that's generally due to intolerance in general (and on many sides and issues), rather than something inherent in the particular position. And when someone is perceived to have a chip on their shoulder, there's always someone who just wants to push it off for no other reason than that it's there. You can use "many Americans" to mean many things: there's a lot of people in America, so even a small percentage sharing a particular belief is going to be a lot of people. If you have numbers to support your views, I'd be interested in hearing them. To my reading, you may be particularly sensitive on this issue and in at least some cases reading more into some behavior and statements than may be warranted. Have a black bean burger and some tempeh on me!
- toomanybeersies 8y ago
  If you're with a group of people at a restaurant that you don't know well and someone says they're gluten free, nobody bats an eye. Even though there's a good chance they're just on a fad diet. If someone can't eat pork due to their beliefs, same story. If someone mentions that they're vegetarian/vegan though, guaranteed someone will ask them why and question their beliefs. They'll probably get defensive and state that they could never give up eating steak/bacon/misc flesh, as if the vegetarian is trying to take that away from them.
  - grzm 8y ago
    I disagree that it's guaranteed, but even if that is the case, what you describe here is a far cry from Many Americans believe that vegetarianism and veganism are wrong and even offensive belief systems, Many Americans avoid "fake meat" due to their cultural beliefs, and Many Americans avoid eating things made out of plants. People may question vegetarianism and veganism while these statements can still be false.