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> I totally agree that writing code is a guaranteed way to enhance logical and critical thinking skills but the same is true of studying logic directly, or phys

by geebee 8y ago

> I totally agree that writing code is a guaranteed way to enhance logical and critical thinking skills but the same is true of studying logic directly, or physics, biology etc That goes well beyond "simply a lucrative trade", though, doesn't it? Even if we disagree about whether it is fundamental in and of itself (akin to algorithmic thinking), or just similar to physics or studying logic directly.

root_axis 8y ago
> That goes well beyond "simply a lucrative trade", though, doesn't it Sure. When I say it is "simply a lucrative trade" I don't mean to characterize programming as sterile or mundane, I only mean to suggest that the programmer's vaunted status as a profession is a function of the current labor market and not a function of some quality specific to the ability to write software. Writing software is a trade-skill subject to market forces, literacy is a critical thinking skill more akin to logic itself.
- kthielen 8y ago
  > Writing software is a trade-skill subject to market forces, literacy is a critical thinking skill more akin to logic itself. False dichotomy, these things you distinguish are just two sides of the same coin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry%E2%80%93Howard_correspondence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry%E2%80%93Howard_correspon...
  - root_axis 8y ago
    Writing software requires applied logical thinking, but that doesn't make it a fundamental skill. Your reasoning is akin to suggesting that solving a Rubik's cube is a fundamental skill because it requires logical thinking to solve. If the total number of senior engineers on the market increased 10,000% overnight, the value of programming as a skill would instantly plummet, given the same scenario for rates of literacy, the value of literacy would remain the same or perhaps even increase. This is because literacy is a force multiplier in all aspects of career advancement while software programming simply isn't. If you glance anywhere outside the IT echo-chamber to examine the value of literacy vs programming the point I'm making becomes very obvious. Nearly every high prestige profession (lawyer, doctor, scientist, architect, author etc) is amplified by literary skills whereas this is obviously untrue for programming.

by geebee 8y ago

root_axis 8y ago

> That goes well beyond "simply a lucrative trade", though, doesn't it Sure. When I say it is "simply a lucrative trade" I don't mean to characterize programming as sterile or mundane, I only mean to suggest that the programmer's vaunted status as a profession is a function of the current labor market and not a function of some quality specific to the ability to write software. Writing software is a trade-skill subject to market forces, literacy is a critical thinking skill more akin to logic itself.

kthielen 8y ago
> Writing software is a trade-skill subject to market forces, literacy is a critical thinking skill more akin to logic itself. False dichotomy, these things you distinguish are just two sides of the same coin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry%E2%80%93Howard_correspondence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry%E2%80%93Howard_correspon...
- root_axis 8y ago
  Writing software requires applied logical thinking, but that doesn't make it a fundamental skill. Your reasoning is akin to suggesting that solving a Rubik's cube is a fundamental skill because it requires logical thinking to solve. If the total number of senior engineers on the market increased 10,000% overnight, the value of programming as a skill would instantly plummet, given the same scenario for rates of literacy, the value of literacy would remain the same or perhaps even increase. This is because literacy is a force multiplier in all aspects of career advancement while software programming simply isn't. If you glance anywhere outside the IT echo-chamber to examine the value of literacy vs programming the point I'm making becomes very obvious. Nearly every high prestige profession (lawyer, doctor, scientist, architect, author etc) is amplified by literary skills whereas this is obviously untrue for programming.