4 ms·

Ring (the video doorbell) is exactly like this and I haven't gotten rid of my subscription because I keep forgetting and their hours are like 9 to 5pm. Hopefull

Ring (the video doorbell) is exactly like this and I haven't gotten rid of my subscription because I keep forgetting and their hours are like 9 to 5pm. Hopefully this changes so that I can get rid of that crap.

dv_dt 8y ago
I'm sorry, maybe it's my IoT-get-off-my-network/lawn hackles being raised here, but why does your doorbell need a subscription in the first place?
- joenathanone 8y ago
  Cloud based DVR functions, the doorbell can record whenever there is a ring or on motion. The subscription isn't mandatory.
- Skunkleton 8y ago
  Basically because of NAT. Because the devices on your network can't all have public IP addressed, you have to have them all connect to a central public server. Public servers cost money->ring costs money. Of course the reason things are architected this way is so that more people can make money...
  - ddoolin 8y ago
    Can this be solved by using IPv6 and addressing everything publicly?
    - asadlionpk 8y ago
      Won't be fun if there is a vulnerability.
    - Skunkleton 8y ago
      Probably not: 1. NAT provides a basic level of security for your network. The same could be achieved with a firewall, but it isnt the norm. 2. Even without nat, there would still have to be _some_ computer that does the processing on the raw data from the IoT device. There is no reason that couldnt be your PC or Phone, but the precedent has been set that these tasks are performed on a managed device in the "cloud". 3. The companies involved will make less money. A better solution would be to have an IoT gateway device publicly accessible that proxies access to the individual IoT devices. This would create a better security story. If this device were standards based, then each IoT vendor could integrate with it, and router vendors could add the capability to their devices. Of course there is no financial incentive for things to work this way. I guess I only bring up NAT because it is yet another example of the "server" lie. There is no such thing as a computer that is a "server". Programs act as servers. Computers might be "server-class", but all that means is that they are high quality. Driving a wedge between "servers" and normal PCs just pushes more control out of individual's hands.
      - Spivak 8y ago
        1. It would be the norm with an IPv6 gateway. It's not like it takes anything special to replace NAT with a firewall: allow outbound, allow established/related inbound, and replace port forwarding in the UX with allow rules for (host, port). 2. No argument, does seem odd that it wouldn't be the app though. Figure a door bell wouldn't be all that intensive. 3. Yeah, recurring revenue is pretty much the gold standard. A device that stands between your device and the public internet, provides security and access control, and is standards based... so a perimeter firewall? But with an API to allow internal devices to punch their own holes. Ehh don't get me wrong I like the spirit, but that would immediately get used by malware.
    - MrMorden 8y ago
      If you can convince your monopoly ISP to implement IPv6, among other hurdles.
thelastidiot 8y ago
And interestingly "9 to 5pm" CENTRAL time. So here is my theory. Most service calls for the same company will be 24/7 out of India, Philippines, etc, where cost is low but ROI is good. Then cancellation done in the USA at "normal" biz hours to make it a real PITA.
shostack 8y ago
Unless this is some other type of support, their official page seems to indicate 24/7 phone support[1]. Also, aren't they owned by Amazon now? [1] https://support.ring.com/hc/en-us/articles/213608406-Phone-Numbers-for-Community-Support-Worldwide https://support.ring.com/hc/en-us/articles/213608406-Phone-N...
nuclear_eclipse 8y ago
I recently switched from Ring to the Nest Hello, and I was able to cancel my subscription directly from the Ring app on my phone.
- pfarnsworth 8y ago
  No I can't find out where I can cancel my subscription on the Ring app. Where in the app is it found?

dv_dt 8y ago

I'm sorry, maybe it's my IoT-get-off-my-network/lawn hackles being raised here, but why does your doorbell need a subscription in the first place?

joenathanone 8y ago
Cloud based DVR functions, the doorbell can record whenever there is a ring or on motion. The subscription isn't mandatory.
Skunkleton 8y ago
Basically because of NAT. Because the devices on your network can't all have public IP addressed, you have to have them all connect to a central public server. Public servers cost money->ring costs money. Of course the reason things are architected this way is so that more people can make money...
- ddoolin 8y ago
  Can this be solved by using IPv6 and addressing everything publicly?
  - asadlionpk 8y ago
    Won't be fun if there is a vulnerability.
  - Skunkleton 8y ago
    Probably not: 1. NAT provides a basic level of security for your network. The same could be achieved with a firewall, but it isnt the norm. 2. Even without nat, there would still have to be _some_ computer that does the processing on the raw data from the IoT device. There is no reason that couldnt be your PC or Phone, but the precedent has been set that these tasks are performed on a managed device in the "cloud". 3. The companies involved will make less money. A better solution would be to have an IoT gateway device publicly accessible that proxies access to the individual IoT devices. This would create a better security story. If this device were standards based, then each IoT vendor could integrate with it, and router vendors could add the capability to their devices. Of course there is no financial incentive for things to work this way. I guess I only bring up NAT because it is yet another example of the "server" lie. There is no such thing as a computer that is a "server". Programs act as servers. Computers might be "server-class", but all that means is that they are high quality. Driving a wedge between "servers" and normal PCs just pushes more control out of individual's hands.
    - Spivak 8y ago
      1. It would be the norm with an IPv6 gateway. It's not like it takes anything special to replace NAT with a firewall: allow outbound, allow established/related inbound, and replace port forwarding in the UX with allow rules for (host, port). 2. No argument, does seem odd that it wouldn't be the app though. Figure a door bell wouldn't be all that intensive. 3. Yeah, recurring revenue is pretty much the gold standard. A device that stands between your device and the public internet, provides security and access control, and is standards based... so a perimeter firewall? But with an API to allow internal devices to punch their own holes. Ehh don't get me wrong I like the spirit, but that would immediately get used by malware.
  - MrMorden 8y ago
    If you can convince your monopoly ISP to implement IPv6, among other hurdles.

thelastidiot 8y ago

And interestingly "9 to 5pm" CENTRAL time. So here is my theory. Most service calls for the same company will be 24/7 out of India, Philippines, etc, where cost is low but ROI is good. Then cancellation done in the USA at "normal" biz hours to make it a real PITA.

shostack 8y ago

Unless this is some other type of support, their official page seems to indicate 24/7 phone support[1]. Also, aren't they owned by Amazon now? [1] https://support.ring.com/hc/en-us/articles/213608406-Phone-Numbers-for-Community-Support-Worldwide https://support.ring.com/hc/en-us/articles/213608406-Phone-N...

nuclear_eclipse 8y ago

I recently switched from Ring to the Nest Hello, and I was able to cancel my subscription directly from the Ring app on my phone.

pfarnsworth 8y ago
No I can't find out where I can cancel my subscription on the Ring app. Where in the app is it found?