5 ms·

> And that's ignoring the fact that he seemed to fail at the main tenets of his job. Really? How? The personal habits were egregious, but as to his administra

by ci5er 8y ago

> And that's ignoring the fact that he seemed to fail at the main tenets of his job. Really? How? The personal habits were egregious, but as to his administrative choices, do you simply disagree with his policy choices? Or did he do something wrong? EDIT: The reason his corruption made me sad is that I thought he was succeeding at the basic tenets of his job. Which means that you and I might well differ at what those tenets might be. I'm curious: what do you think the head of the EPA should be doing (within the bounds of the job) that he was not doing?

hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
I get that Democrats and Republicans have very, very different views on the role of government, and especially the EPA. Still, Scott Pruitt seemed almost cartoonishly evil in this role. I can understand if you believe the environment is better protected by some other means, but when your primary goal is to basically continue acting as a coal industry lobbyist, methinks head of the EPA is not a job you should have.
- ci5er 8y ago
  Fair enough. I do not like corruption in government officials, regardless of any particular policy positions. EDIT: I am still curious as to the actions he took, as an officer that people here might disagree with...
  - throwaway956739 8y ago
    This isn't about the policies, Pruitt realistically hasn't been administrator long enough to be enacting or implementing policies. They are separate cases, he resigned for misconduct reasons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malfeasance_in_office https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malfeasance_in_office) as you can't really judge policy within a court of law within such a short period unless the policies immediately infringed upon certain things that can be judged.
    - ci5er 8y ago
      Fair enough.
shakestheclown 8y ago
Talking admin and not policy, he had a number of issues. The secret calendars may have violated federal law, the large raises for his aides that the White House declined and he went around them and did anyway, the large increase in security detail costs and first class flights, the soundproof booth, having staffers book his hotels on their personal cards with no reimbursement, using staff to find his wife a job, making staff run personal errands, etc. For a guy that supposedly believes in smaller government he seemed to waste a pretty fair amount of agency money.
- ci5er 8y ago
  I'm not arguing admin - which was clearly problematic. (I would get fired, for sure, for doing what he has done there) I'm curious about what policy moves he made that made people angry. Maybe everyone is OK with his policy move? I don't get that this is the case... EDIT: More specifically - do people, hating his policy moves, make up admin stories about his egregious personal spend? I'm inclined to believe he was a corruptocrat, but the stories didn't come from political allies that liked his policy moves...
mikestew 8y ago
Pruitt has rolled back or delayed the implementation of many regulations that I think would be effective in protecting the environment. Civil penalties against polluters are half of what they were before Pruitt showed up. I could go on, but suffice it to say that as director of the Environmental Protection Agency, I don't think Pruitt was doin' a whole lot of protectin'. If you feel that the environment (no, not the "business environment") is better protected thanks to the actions of Scott Pruitt, then we're just going to have to agree to disagree.
- ci5er 8y ago
  I don't disagree. As an economics-ish guy, I tend to look at Cost-Benefit. Spending one billion dollars to comply with a reg (silly extreme example) for a dollar worth of saved salamander, doesn't make sense to me. But I don't think anyone wants to leave a dirtier earth to their children...
  - elipsey 8y ago
    Is this intended as hyperbole, or is there really a billion dollar salamander I should know about?
    - ci5er 8y ago
      Hyperbole. Also in Austin Texas, "Save Our Salamander" (SOS) is a real (major) thing.
virtuabhi 8y ago
https://www.apnews.com/646836ad590c4230b730fc17cfbcb967/EPA-ends-clean-air-policy-opposed-by-fossil-fuel-interests https://www.apnews.com/646836ad590c4230b730fc17cfbcb967/EPA-... https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/22/climate/epa-scientists.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0 https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/22/climate/epa-scientists.ht... https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/editorials/2018/06/22/epa-making-mistake-rolling-back-chemical-plant-safety-rules https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/editorials/2018/06/22/epa... http://www.newsweek.com/pruitt-trump-asbestos-chemicals-trump-962703 http://www.newsweek.com/pruitt-trump-asbestos-chemicals-trum... https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2018/04/24/epa-chief-scott-pruitt-delete-decades-of-science-in-the-name-of-transparency/#4c4b37777afa https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2018/04/24/epa-chief... http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-verchick-epa-cost-benefit-analysis-20180628-story.html http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-verchick-epa-cost... I am surprised that you were not able to search for this information yourself. I sense either incompetence or trollish behavior.
- ci5er 8y ago
  HN, collectively, has it's own opinions. I was curious (and asking) about that. I certainly know what the MSM thinks - but they are a bunch of hacks that have to churn out 3 articles/day (god save them), and have no time to develop any insight of their own. Thanks, though, for impugning motive. That makes me feel all sorts of warm and fuzzy about you.
elipsey 8y ago
Pruitt is accused of declining to exercise the mandate of EPA in various ways, and discarding results and recommendations from staff scientists. In context, he was appointed to administer EPA by an executive that is issuing orders to modify science based recommendations by fiat. A cursory search in this area returns a variety of examples. --canceled tracking requirements for fossil-fuel related methane emissions[1] --overruled the internal recommendation to ban chlorpyrifos[2] --sought to delay various reports and standards[3][4] –proposed “transparency” rules to disallow the use of anonymized human health data[5] --worked to remove climate assumptions from agency recommendations, e.g. for flood risk[6] --ordering downward revision of environmental cost assumptions[7] [1] https://insideclimatenews.org/news/03032017/scott-pruitt-environmental-protection-agency-methane-greenhouse-gas-climate-change https://insideclimatenews.org/news/03032017/scott-pruitt-env... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/29/us/politics/epa-insecticide-chlorpyrifos.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/29/us/politics/epa-insectici... [3] https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/14/emails-white-house-interf7ered-with-science-study-536950 https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/14/emails-white-house... [4] https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/8-1-17_state_of_ny_v_us_epa.pdf https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/8-1-17_state_of_ny_v_u... [5] https://s3.amazonaws.com/ucs-documents/science-and-democracy/secret-science-letter-4-23-2018.pdf https://s3.amazonaws.com/ucs-documents/science-and-democracy... [6] https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2015/01/30/executive-order-establishing-federal-flood-risk-management-standard-and- https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2015/0... [7] https://e360.yale.edu/features/how-the-trump-administration-distorts-analysis-of-key-environmental-rules https://e360.yale.edu/features/how-the-trump-administration-...
- ci5er 8y ago
  Generally, I like his evidence-based protocols over the predecessor, but #2 (in your list) is troubling (as implemented. Hes's a corruptocrat and must go ... but I actually like the (general) balance (Cost-Benefit) of most (most! not all!) of his diktat moves. Sometimes it feels as if that agency was arguing over parts in a million vs parts in a quadrilion. At some point - it just becomes too expensive to implement for no benefit except to guarantee jobs to a lifeless bureaucrat. (Well, I guess that was an assessment, so I should say: It seems so to me.)
danso 8y ago
It seems his resignation was directly related to his "administrative choices". It wasn't coincidence that his resignation came minutes after a NYT story alleged that he ordered the deletion of records that are mandated for preservation by federal law: https://nytimes.com/2018/07/05/climate/pruitt-epa-calendar-morris.html https://nytimes.com/2018/07/05/climate/pruitt-epa-calendar-m...

by ci5er 8y ago

hn_throwaway_99 8y ago

I get that Democrats and Republicans have very, very different views on the role of government, and especially the EPA. Still, Scott Pruitt seemed almost cartoonishly evil in this role. I can understand if you believe the environment is better protected by some other means, but when your primary goal is to basically continue acting as a coal industry lobbyist, methinks head of the EPA is not a job you should have.

ci5er 8y ago
Fair enough. I do not like corruption in government officials, regardless of any particular policy positions. EDIT: I am still curious as to the actions he took, as an officer that people here might disagree with...
- throwaway956739 8y ago
  This isn't about the policies, Pruitt realistically hasn't been administrator long enough to be enacting or implementing policies. They are separate cases, he resigned for misconduct reasons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malfeasance_in_office https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malfeasance_in_office) as you can't really judge policy within a court of law within such a short period unless the policies immediately infringed upon certain things that can be judged.
  - ci5er 8y ago
    Fair enough.

shakestheclown 8y ago

Talking admin and not policy, he had a number of issues. The secret calendars may have violated federal law, the large raises for his aides that the White House declined and he went around them and did anyway, the large increase in security detail costs and first class flights, the soundproof booth, having staffers book his hotels on their personal cards with no reimbursement, using staff to find his wife a job, making staff run personal errands, etc. For a guy that supposedly believes in smaller government he seemed to waste a pretty fair amount of agency money.

ci5er 8y ago
I'm not arguing admin - which was clearly problematic. (I would get fired, for sure, for doing what he has done there) I'm curious about what policy moves he made that made people angry. Maybe everyone is OK with his policy move? I don't get that this is the case... EDIT: More specifically - do people, hating his policy moves, make up admin stories about his egregious personal spend? I'm inclined to believe he was a corruptocrat, but the stories didn't come from political allies that liked his policy moves...

mikestew 8y ago

Pruitt has rolled back or delayed the implementation of many regulations that I think would be effective in protecting the environment. Civil penalties against polluters are half of what they were before Pruitt showed up. I could go on, but suffice it to say that as director of the Environmental Protection Agency, I don't think Pruitt was doin' a whole lot of protectin'. If you feel that the environment (no, not the "business environment") is better protected thanks to the actions of Scott Pruitt, then we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

ci5er 8y ago
I don't disagree. As an economics-ish guy, I tend to look at Cost-Benefit. Spending one billion dollars to comply with a reg (silly extreme example) for a dollar worth of saved salamander, doesn't make sense to me. But I don't think anyone wants to leave a dirtier earth to their children...
- elipsey 8y ago
  Is this intended as hyperbole, or is there really a billion dollar salamander I should know about?
  - ci5er 8y ago
    Hyperbole. Also in Austin Texas, "Save Our Salamander" (SOS) is a real (major) thing.

virtuabhi 8y ago

https://www.apnews.com/646836ad590c4230b730fc17cfbcb967/EPA-ends-clean-air-policy-opposed-by-fossil-fuel-interests https://www.apnews.com/646836ad590c4230b730fc17cfbcb967/EPA-... https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/22/climate/epa-scientists.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0 https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/22/climate/epa-scientists.ht... https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/editorials/2018/06/22/epa-making-mistake-rolling-back-chemical-plant-safety-rules https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/editorials/2018/06/22/epa... http://www.newsweek.com/pruitt-trump-asbestos-chemicals-trump-962703 http://www.newsweek.com/pruitt-trump-asbestos-chemicals-trum... https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2018/04/24/epa-chief-scott-pruitt-delete-decades-of-science-in-the-name-of-transparency/#4c4b37777afa https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2018/04/24/epa-chief... http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-verchick-epa-cost-benefit-analysis-20180628-story.html http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-verchick-epa-cost... I am surprised that you were not able to search for this information yourself. I sense either incompetence or trollish behavior.

ci5er 8y ago
HN, collectively, has it's own opinions. I was curious (and asking) about that. I certainly know what the MSM thinks - but they are a bunch of hacks that have to churn out 3 articles/day (god save them), and have no time to develop any insight of their own. Thanks, though, for impugning motive. That makes me feel all sorts of warm and fuzzy about you.

elipsey 8y ago

Pruitt is accused of declining to exercise the mandate of EPA in various ways, and discarding results and recommendations from staff scientists. In context, he was appointed to administer EPA by an executive that is issuing orders to modify science based recommendations by fiat. A cursory search in this area returns a variety of examples. --canceled tracking requirements for fossil-fuel related methane emissions[1] --overruled the internal recommendation to ban chlorpyrifos[2] --sought to delay various reports and standards[3][4] –proposed “transparency” rules to disallow the use of anonymized human health data[5] --worked to remove climate assumptions from agency recommendations, e.g. for flood risk[6] --ordering downward revision of environmental cost assumptions[7] [1] https://insideclimatenews.org/news/03032017/scott-pruitt-environmental-protection-agency-methane-greenhouse-gas-climate-change https://insideclimatenews.org/news/03032017/scott-pruitt-env... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/29/us/politics/epa-insecticide-chlorpyrifos.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/29/us/politics/epa-insectici... [3] https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/14/emails-white-house-interf7ered-with-science-study-536950 https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/14/emails-white-house... [4] https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/8-1-17_state_of_ny_v_us_epa.pdf https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/8-1-17_state_of_ny_v_u... [5] https://s3.amazonaws.com/ucs-documents/science-and-democracy/secret-science-letter-4-23-2018.pdf https://s3.amazonaws.com/ucs-documents/science-and-democracy... [6] https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2015/01/30/executive-order-establishing-federal-flood-risk-management-standard-and- https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2015/0... [7] https://e360.yale.edu/features/how-the-trump-administration-distorts-analysis-of-key-environmental-rules https://e360.yale.edu/features/how-the-trump-administration-...

ci5er 8y ago
Generally, I like his evidence-based protocols over the predecessor, but #2 (in your list) is troubling (as implemented. Hes's a corruptocrat and must go ... but I actually like the (general) balance (Cost-Benefit) of most (most! not all!) of his diktat moves. Sometimes it feels as if that agency was arguing over parts in a million vs parts in a quadrilion. At some point - it just becomes too expensive to implement for no benefit except to guarantee jobs to a lifeless bureaucrat. (Well, I guess that was an assessment, so I should say: It seems so to me.)

danso 8y ago

It seems his resignation was directly related to his "administrative choices". It wasn't coincidence that his resignation came minutes after a NYT story alleged that he ordered the deletion of records that are mandated for preservation by federal law: https://nytimes.com/2018/07/05/climate/pruitt-epa-calendar-morris.html https://nytimes.com/2018/07/05/climate/pruitt-epa-calendar-m...