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I would agree that coding is no replacement for literacy. However, I see coding as more than a lucrative trade. I think it is increasingly a way of reasoning ab

by geebee 8y ago

I would agree that coding is no replacement for literacy. However, I see coding as more than a lucrative trade. I think it is increasingly a way of reasoning about data, not just a set of techniques for manipulating data. I think the ability to code is starting to weave itself deeply into the analytic mindset. If you can't write code, you are limited in your ability to be creative with data. In this sense, it is similar to literacy - you don't just write up your topic after you understand it, you develop understanding through writing. Similarly, you don't do your coding after you understand your data, you understand your data by interacting with it - and these days, that involves increasingly sophisticated coding skill. It is a different kind of coding that software engineering, to be sure, and there will be a grey area between data work and actual coding. But based on what I'm starting to see (I work regularly with academics who struggle with this), it is reasonable to call their analytical work a kind of coding - in fact, I'm not sure there's any other way to describe it. I'm starting to see the amount of R, Python, or other languages analysts need to write to truly dig into complex data, to the point where you can really get insight into it. We can debate where the line between coding and mere analysis starts and ends, but what I'm seeing ventures well into the territory where it is most accurate to call it coding.

root_axis 8y ago
What you're describing here is a specialized skillset that is becoming a necessary tool in order to push forward the frontiers of science and academia, but it isn't a fundamental building block of the mind like literacy or even something like philosophy.
- geebee 8y ago
  Interesting, but I still disagree. To the extent that code is a tool, it's as fundamental as a pencil and paper. However, I believe that it runs much deeper than a tool, even a very fundamental one. I was a double major in literature and math (CS emphasis), and I think people really overlook how fundamentally algorithmic thinking structures your mind, at a very deep level. I think it is particularly valuable in combination with other approaches, which is why I encourage people who study CS to read and study widely in the humanities and sciences. I think people who do that can have unusual insight into topics well outside the traditional realm of CS. I do think differently about problems well outside the realm of CS because of my background in CS. You don't strictly need to code to develop this kind of thinking, but coding is a good way to develop it. For me, it has been as fundamental as literary analysis or mathematical proof.
  - root_axis 8y ago
    > To the extent that code is a tool, it's as fundamental as a pencil and paper This is very clearly false. I'll sidestep the semantic argument regarding pen/paper vs a keyboard, but the bottom line is that reading and writing are fundamental communication skills that represent the bedrock of civilization and while computers are obviously a revolutionary and world-changing technology the likes of which we've never seen before, the same can be said of physics, chemistry, metallurgy, agriculture etc. These skills just aren't a requirement for being a productive citizen (like reading and writing); they're just not. > I think people really overlook how fundamentally algorithmic thinking structures your mind People overlook lots of important insights about psychology, biology, and physics, it doesn't mean those things are fundamental skills comparable to literacy. > but coding is a good way to develop it I totally agree that writing code is a guaranteed way to enhance logical and critical thinking skills but the same is true of studying logic directly, or physics, biology etc
    - geebee 8y ago
      > I totally agree that writing code is a guaranteed way to enhance logical and critical thinking skills but the same is true of studying logic directly, or physics, biology etc That goes well beyond "simply a lucrative trade", though, doesn't it? Even if we disagree about whether it is fundamental in and of itself (akin to algorithmic thinking), or just similar to physics or studying logic directly.
      - root_axis 8y ago
        > That goes well beyond "simply a lucrative trade", though, doesn't it Sure. When I say it is "simply a lucrative trade" I don't mean to characterize programming as sterile or mundane, I only mean to suggest that the programmer's vaunted status as a profession is a function of the current labor market and not a function of some quality specific to the ability to write software. Writing software is a trade-skill subject to market forces, literacy is a critical thinking skill more akin to logic itself.
        8y ago

by geebee 8y ago

root_axis 8y ago

What you're describing here is a specialized skillset that is becoming a necessary tool in order to push forward the frontiers of science and academia, but it isn't a fundamental building block of the mind like literacy or even something like philosophy.

geebee 8y ago
Interesting, but I still disagree. To the extent that code is a tool, it's as fundamental as a pencil and paper. However, I believe that it runs much deeper than a tool, even a very fundamental one. I was a double major in literature and math (CS emphasis), and I think people really overlook how fundamentally algorithmic thinking structures your mind, at a very deep level. I think it is particularly valuable in combination with other approaches, which is why I encourage people who study CS to read and study widely in the humanities and sciences. I think people who do that can have unusual insight into topics well outside the traditional realm of CS. I do think differently about problems well outside the realm of CS because of my background in CS. You don't strictly need to code to develop this kind of thinking, but coding is a good way to develop it. For me, it has been as fundamental as literary analysis or mathematical proof.
- root_axis 8y ago
  > To the extent that code is a tool, it's as fundamental as a pencil and paper This is very clearly false. I'll sidestep the semantic argument regarding pen/paper vs a keyboard, but the bottom line is that reading and writing are fundamental communication skills that represent the bedrock of civilization and while computers are obviously a revolutionary and world-changing technology the likes of which we've never seen before, the same can be said of physics, chemistry, metallurgy, agriculture etc. These skills just aren't a requirement for being a productive citizen (like reading and writing); they're just not. > I think people really overlook how fundamentally algorithmic thinking structures your mind People overlook lots of important insights about psychology, biology, and physics, it doesn't mean those things are fundamental skills comparable to literacy. > but coding is a good way to develop it I totally agree that writing code is a guaranteed way to enhance logical and critical thinking skills but the same is true of studying logic directly, or physics, biology etc
  - geebee 8y ago
    > I totally agree that writing code is a guaranteed way to enhance logical and critical thinking skills but the same is true of studying logic directly, or physics, biology etc That goes well beyond "simply a lucrative trade", though, doesn't it? Even if we disagree about whether it is fundamental in and of itself (akin to algorithmic thinking), or just similar to physics or studying logic directly.
    - root_axis 8y ago
      > That goes well beyond "simply a lucrative trade", though, doesn't it Sure. When I say it is "simply a lucrative trade" I don't mean to characterize programming as sterile or mundane, I only mean to suggest that the programmer's vaunted status as a profession is a function of the current labor market and not a function of some quality specific to the ability to write software. Writing software is a trade-skill subject to market forces, literacy is a critical thinking skill more akin to logic itself.
      - 8y ago