7 ms·

Whenever I get a new Windows laptop, the first four or five hours are spent reinstalling software that I use on a daily basis. I can just leave a new phone nex

by waivek 8y ago

Whenever I get a new Windows laptop, the first four or five hours are spent reinstalling software that I use on a daily basis. I can just leave a new phone next to the router. With windows, I have to sit and monitor a lot of things for those four hours along with hunting down the most updated executables and setup files. I feel that mobile got software distribution correct. Thanks a ton, Scott Forstall.

abhiminator 8y ago
>I feel that mobile got software distribution correct. It's more like mobile got package management right. Windows is terrible as an example to use for installing/removing software as it has extremely crude (almost non-existent) package management system (referring to Windows Installer here -- .msi files). [0] I like to think of the App store (and equivalent) as a Linux command-line beautified by a GUI shell in a mobile form-factor. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Installer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Installer
- nailer 8y ago
  This is what 'Click n run' was - one of the first app stores, created on the (ugly named) 'Lindows' Linux distribution.
- waivek 8y ago
  With Linux desktops I have to know command line stuff and risk having to debug initial wifi issues myself.
  - abhiminator 8y ago
    >debug initial wifi issues myself. But doesn't that make you better at troubleshooting and fixing problems in Linux -- a useful skill to have?
    - waivek 8y ago
      I don't use Linux.
ISL 8y ago
Apt also gets package distribution right, and it predates the app store by many years. When I get a new Debian box, I just sudo apt-get install a list of my most-common programs and I'm off to the races.
- tonyarkles 8y ago
  Apt is so close. So close! The one feature that would make it so much better is to be able to export the list of packages that I’ve directly asked for (maybe you can do that?). On the other side, apt install could consume that. Being able to take a new machine running, say, Ubuntu 18.04 and get all of the stuff installed that I had on my old 14.04 box in a really easy way would be deadly.
  - stevekemp 8y ago
    Package names/dependencies change through releases, but you can kinda do what you want via dpkg. Export the packages: dpkg --get-selections > list.txt Then install those same packages on a new box: dpkg --set-selections < list.txt apt-get -f install
    - tonyarkles 8y ago
      Ohhhhhhh that's pretty cool! Just looking through the list here though, that's going to dump out the list of all of the installed packages, not just the ones I've requested explicitly I think. That's the part that the App Store gets really right. I still want all of the dependencies for the packages that are getting installed, but a way shorter list of "these are the things you've explicitly asked for" It seems like that is actually inside Apt somewhere too... since it does keep track of packages to auto-remove when their reverse dependencies go away.
- willtim 8y ago
  With NixOS, I have my entire OS configuration and packages described in a small consistent set of files, which I can point the installer at.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
On the one hand, AppStore/Package Management models allow you to do that, on the other hand applications that aren't in the store/repo may as well not exist. To me, part of what makes PCs "Personal Computers" is that I don't need to go through some third party to distribute or acquire software. I don't need anyone's blessing, and I don't need to jump through hoops rooting the device or compiling from source, I just do it because it's my computer. If all Windows applications were PortableApps, all you'd have to do when getting a new computer is copy over the directories where your applications are stored. Installs are a copy, uninstalls are a delete.
- waivek 8y ago
  PortableApps are still not as good as mobile where I don't have to store backups of outdated apps personally.
  - hungerstrike 8y ago
    Mobile apps are not as good as portable apps where I can actually go back to an older version if I want to.
    - waivek 8y ago
      I don't want to think about versions of apps. I just want to use the app.
      - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
        Then why do you use a Windows laptop? Get a Chromebook, or something else designed for people who don't actually want a personal computer.
        waivek 8y ago
        I like to play and code video games.
      - 8y ago
yread 8y ago
have you tried ninite it can install lots of free software without interaction
- waivek 8y ago
  I did try it. I use PotPlayer, Unity, Unreal as my daily drivers.
thisisananth 8y ago
Did you try scoop for windows.It is a command line installer and you can avoid all the annoying popups. https://github.com/lukesampson/scoop https://github.com/lukesampson/scoop
- SOLAR_FIELDS 8y ago
  How is this different from Chocolatey or its pseudo-wrapper PackageManagement(OneGet)?
- waivek 8y ago
  Can it install Unreal Engine, Unity and Visual Studio?
victor106 8y ago
Can someone here explain how Forstall was critical to getting this correct?
toasterlovin 8y ago
I agree with you and I have often hypothesized to myself that the only reason the world wide web was ever a thing is because software distribution on Windows was such a terrible experience. That being said, I'm sure Windows could have done some stuff better, but it came of age in a hardly connected era and you need omnipresent internet connections for the mobile software distribution model, so it's kinda hard to blame Microsoft too much for being able to see around the corner.

by waivek 8y ago

abhiminator 8y ago

>I feel that mobile got software distribution correct. It's more like mobile got package management right. Windows is terrible as an example to use for installing/removing software as it has extremely crude (almost non-existent) package management system (referring to Windows Installer here -- .msi files). [0] I like to think of the App store (and equivalent) as a Linux command-line beautified by a GUI shell in a mobile form-factor. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Installer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Installer

nailer 8y ago
This is what 'Click n run' was - one of the first app stores, created on the (ugly named) 'Lindows' Linux distribution.
waivek 8y ago
With Linux desktops I have to know command line stuff and risk having to debug initial wifi issues myself.
- abhiminator 8y ago
  >debug initial wifi issues myself. But doesn't that make you better at troubleshooting and fixing problems in Linux -- a useful skill to have?
  - waivek 8y ago
    I don't use Linux.

ISL 8y ago

Apt also gets package distribution right, and it predates the app store by many years. When I get a new Debian box, I just sudo apt-get install a list of my most-common programs and I'm off to the races.

tonyarkles 8y ago
Apt is so close. So close! The one feature that would make it so much better is to be able to export the list of packages that I’ve directly asked for (maybe you can do that?). On the other side, apt install could consume that. Being able to take a new machine running, say, Ubuntu 18.04 and get all of the stuff installed that I had on my old 14.04 box in a really easy way would be deadly.
- stevekemp 8y ago
  Package names/dependencies change through releases, but you can kinda do what you want via dpkg. Export the packages: dpkg --get-selections > list.txt Then install those same packages on a new box: dpkg --set-selections < list.txt apt-get -f install
  - tonyarkles 8y ago
    Ohhhhhhh that's pretty cool! Just looking through the list here though, that's going to dump out the list of all of the installed packages, not just the ones I've requested explicitly I think. That's the part that the App Store gets really right. I still want all of the dependencies for the packages that are getting installed, but a way shorter list of "these are the things you've explicitly asked for" It seems like that is actually inside Apt somewhere too... since it does keep track of packages to auto-remove when their reverse dependencies go away.
willtim 8y ago
With NixOS, I have my entire OS configuration and packages described in a small consistent set of files, which I can point the installer at.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago

On the one hand, AppStore/Package Management models allow you to do that, on the other hand applications that aren't in the store/repo may as well not exist. To me, part of what makes PCs "Personal Computers" is that I don't need to go through some third party to distribute or acquire software. I don't need anyone's blessing, and I don't need to jump through hoops rooting the device or compiling from source, I just do it because it's my computer. If all Windows applications were PortableApps, all you'd have to do when getting a new computer is copy over the directories where your applications are stored. Installs are a copy, uninstalls are a delete.

waivek 8y ago
PortableApps are still not as good as mobile where I don't have to store backups of outdated apps personally.
- hungerstrike 8y ago
  Mobile apps are not as good as portable apps where I can actually go back to an older version if I want to.
  - waivek 8y ago
    I don't want to think about versions of apps. I just want to use the app.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
      Then why do you use a Windows laptop? Get a Chromebook, or something else designed for people who don't actually want a personal computer.
      - waivek 8y ago
        I like to play and code video games.
    - 8y ago

yread 8y ago

have you tried ninite it can install lots of free software without interaction

waivek 8y ago
I did try it. I use PotPlayer, Unity, Unreal as my daily drivers.

thisisananth 8y ago

Did you try scoop for windows.It is a command line installer and you can avoid all the annoying popups. https://github.com/lukesampson/scoop https://github.com/lukesampson/scoop

SOLAR_FIELDS 8y ago
How is this different from Chocolatey or its pseudo-wrapper PackageManagement(OneGet)?
waivek 8y ago
Can it install Unreal Engine, Unity and Visual Studio?

victor106 8y ago

Can someone here explain how Forstall was critical to getting this correct?

toasterlovin 8y ago

I agree with you and I have often hypothesized to myself that the only reason the world wide web was ever a thing is because software distribution on Windows was such a terrible experience. That being said, I'm sure Windows could have done some stuff better, but it came of age in a hardly connected era and you need omnipresent internet connections for the mobile software distribution model, so it's kinda hard to blame Microsoft too much for being able to see around the corner.