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Where did the OP limit his claim to be about a specific thing like technology? And why did you interpret my comment as having universal applicability? There are

by gfodor 8y ago

Where did the OP limit his claim to be about a specific thing like technology? And why did you interpret my comment as having universal applicability? There are categories of things which if you firmly believe that you are right and the other person is wrong in ascribing importance to them (following the OP's heuristic) you'd necessarily assume that person is a moral failure. For example, if I highly regard the ideas of a specific political philosophy, and others dismiss them as bad ideas that have been disregarded, it seems like a bad idea for me to conclude I'm correct in respecting them simply because people in my age group similarly hold those ideals in high regard. My point was that a heuristic that urges one to have confidence that they have "correct" value judgements simply due to their age is a bad rule to have in your mental model of how to navigate differences with others, even if it's not a hard one.

imgabe 8y ago
Context. Patrick Collison is famous around here for building a SaaS business and writing a lot about helping others to do so. This is Hacker News which focuses heavily on business and tech. > My point was that a heuristic that urges one to have confidence that they have "correct" value judgements simply due to their age is a bad rule to have in your mental model of how to navigate differences with others, even if it's not a hard one. The entire world nudges young people in the opposite direction from the very moment they're born. That nudging is frequently incorrect when it comes to technology, so some nudging in the direction of young people believing in themselves is appropriate. In 2006, there were a bunch of college students who thought Facebook was a pretty big deal. Most 50 year olds in 2006 probably would have disagreed and didn't see why it would be important to post pictures of your friends drinking online. The older people were wrong. It's not a value judgement. They weren't bad people because they were wrong about a technology trend. But they were still wrong. When any new thing comes along there's always a few older, well respected people who dismiss it and say it isn't important. They end up being wrong. It you want to be the one bringing those new things about, you need to learn to ignore those people, even though they're older than you.
- dkrich 8y ago
  > In 2006, there were a bunch of college students who thought Facebook was a pretty big deal. Most 50 year olds in 2006 probably would have disagreed and didn't see why it would be important to post pictures of your friends drinking online. The older people were wrong. This example falls apart for lots of reasons. First, the assertion that someone wouldn't find value in Facebook simply because of their age is demonstrably false. There are millions of 50 year olds who use Facebook today and because Facebook is 14 years old, that adoption happened very quickly. 50 year olds in 2006 wouldn't have found Facebook useful at that time and for a very good reason- it wasn't a community for them, it was a community specifically for college students. I doubt Mark Zuckerberg envisioned Facebook/Whatsapp/Instagram when he first created the site in his dorm room. The use case (and usefulness) expanded over time. > It's not a value judgement. They weren't bad people because they were wrong about a technology trend. But they were still wrong. Wrong about what? This seems like a straw man to me. Nobody other than college students at very elite colleges were able to use Facebook in its early days. Did that mean that students at community colleges didn't understand the value of sharing photos with their friends or was it just old people? I think it's a mistake to try and explain the complicated in such simple terms.
  - imgabe 8y ago
    > This example falls apart for lots of reasons. First, the assertion that someone wouldn't find value in Facebook simply because of their age is demonstrably false. This assumption would be false, but it's not the one I was making. The first people to recognize the potential of a new technology are usually young. Yes, Facebook is popular with older people now. It wasn't in the beginning, even when it opened up to everyone and not just college students.
- gfodor 8y ago
  Uh sure, but for every Facebook there are a ton of things that young people embrace as important, from tech products like the one you mention, to bits of pop culture and art, and even political ideas that ultimately they reject and so eventually agree with their elders who rejected them too. I mean, who didn't go through their "Ayn Rand phase?" My point isn't that these are unhealthy things or that the young are unable to see things others can't, my point was that telling the young that if they feel passionate about something and others roll their eyes, the fact they are young is an insufficient reason to them assume others must be "wrong" to not value it, and doing so will lead to negative consequences since it will undermine empathy for those who have more experience.

by gfodor 8y ago

imgabe 8y ago

Context. Patrick Collison is famous around here for building a SaaS business and writing a lot about helping others to do so. This is Hacker News which focuses heavily on business and tech. > My point was that a heuristic that urges one to have confidence that they have "correct" value judgements simply due to their age is a bad rule to have in your mental model of how to navigate differences with others, even if it's not a hard one. The entire world nudges young people in the opposite direction from the very moment they're born. That nudging is frequently incorrect when it comes to technology, so some nudging in the direction of young people believing in themselves is appropriate. In 2006, there were a bunch of college students who thought Facebook was a pretty big deal. Most 50 year olds in 2006 probably would have disagreed and didn't see why it would be important to post pictures of your friends drinking online. The older people were wrong. It's not a value judgement. They weren't bad people because they were wrong about a technology trend. But they were still wrong. When any new thing comes along there's always a few older, well respected people who dismiss it and say it isn't important. They end up being wrong. It you want to be the one bringing those new things about, you need to learn to ignore those people, even though they're older than you.

dkrich 8y ago
> In 2006, there were a bunch of college students who thought Facebook was a pretty big deal. Most 50 year olds in 2006 probably would have disagreed and didn't see why it would be important to post pictures of your friends drinking online. The older people were wrong. This example falls apart for lots of reasons. First, the assertion that someone wouldn't find value in Facebook simply because of their age is demonstrably false. There are millions of 50 year olds who use Facebook today and because Facebook is 14 years old, that adoption happened very quickly. 50 year olds in 2006 wouldn't have found Facebook useful at that time and for a very good reason- it wasn't a community for them, it was a community specifically for college students. I doubt Mark Zuckerberg envisioned Facebook/Whatsapp/Instagram when he first created the site in his dorm room. The use case (and usefulness) expanded over time. > It's not a value judgement. They weren't bad people because they were wrong about a technology trend. But they were still wrong. Wrong about what? This seems like a straw man to me. Nobody other than college students at very elite colleges were able to use Facebook in its early days. Did that mean that students at community colleges didn't understand the value of sharing photos with their friends or was it just old people? I think it's a mistake to try and explain the complicated in such simple terms.
- imgabe 8y ago
  > This example falls apart for lots of reasons. First, the assertion that someone wouldn't find value in Facebook simply because of their age is demonstrably false. This assumption would be false, but it's not the one I was making. The first people to recognize the potential of a new technology are usually young. Yes, Facebook is popular with older people now. It wasn't in the beginning, even when it opened up to everyone and not just college students.
gfodor 8y ago
Uh sure, but for every Facebook there are a ton of things that young people embrace as important, from tech products like the one you mention, to bits of pop culture and art, and even political ideas that ultimately they reject and so eventually agree with their elders who rejected them too. I mean, who didn't go through their "Ayn Rand phase?" My point isn't that these are unhealthy things or that the young are unable to see things others can't, my point was that telling the young that if they feel passionate about something and others roll their eyes, the fact they are young is an insufficient reason to them assume others must be "wrong" to not value it, and doing so will lead to negative consequences since it will undermine empathy for those who have more experience.