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The British used indentured servitude well into the 20th century. Sure, it’s not the same kind of slavery movies enjoy depicting, but the practice was just as i

The British used indentured servitude well into the 20th century. Sure, it’s not the same kind of slavery movies enjoy depicting, but the practice was just as inhumane and brutal in many respects. Indians were particularly affected by it. America ended all forms of slavery, including indentured servitude, under the 13th amendment after the civil war. We shed a lot of blood as a country to get that result, the sacrifice of those men and women shouldn’t be so quickly cast aside. Our Founders knew the fight against slavery was coming, they discussed it extensively in historical records you can look up, but they had bigger fish to fry first when they founded the country. The fact the United States moved so quickly after the ratification of the Constitution to ban slave importation in 1808 shows they had a strong desire to get the issue solved. The country quickly chipped away at it with all things considered.

krapp 8y ago
>America ended all forms of slavery, including indentured servitude, under the 13th amendmemt after the civil war. Not entirely... the 13th amendment makes an exception for "punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted." Meaning slavery as a private institution is outlawed in the US, but the government is allowed to keep as many slaves as it wants, provided it convicts them of a crime first.
- spaginal 8y ago
  That’s a much larger argument I agree. You could also argue the high level of citizen taxation combined with record deficit spending in our country could be further evidence that the goal posts simply shifted.
  - krapp 8y ago
    I won't go so far as to imply that the American justice system is intended to further the institution of slavery with a racially biased system of laws and law enforcement that results in disproportionate black incarceration. But... it is telling that the US just couldn't bring itself to let go of slavery entirely.
jernfrost 8y ago
With all due respect that is hogwash. The war of independence was not quite the glorious thing Americans like to paint it as. 1) The southern states only joined after they learned that the British were freeing slaves. Now the British may not have had ulterior motives, but then don't pretend all Americans did either. 2) The Royal Proclamation of 1763, which forbid european american settlers from expanding into native American territory, was a major contribution to resentment towards British rule. Not exactly a very honorable thing. 3) As for slavery. The Convict lease system existed until past the 1900s or so. This was an enormous system. Over 70% of the income of the state of Albama was from convict lease system. This was just black slavery under a new name. Not only that but it was significantly more brutal than the old slavery. 4) My wife's side of the family is from Hawaii so I've been there many times. I know all to well about the extent of involuntary servitude placed upon immigrants there. People were beaten lynched, racist laws preventing e.g. Chinese from doing anything but farm work. The whole island was illegally invaded by the US. Hawaii was recognized as a sovereign nation by all of Europe at the time. Ok, I am not trying to say the US was the worst ever, one always ends up getting those accusations. I merely asking to stop this incessant American tendency to glorify themselves as so much better than everybody else. Painting the English as some sort of evil tyrants might make sense in India. But in America people tended to enjoy a lot more freedom and lower taxes than anywhere else. Britain had never promised representation to colonial subjects. The US followed the exact same practice in their own colonies. Did not see the Philippines get any representation in the US. Puerto Rico still doesn't.
- tptacek 8y ago
  I think I agree with the broad thrust of your argument but I am having trouble sourcing the "70% of Alabama's income" stat, and the stats I have found are more like 10%.
travmatt 8y ago
>America ended all forms of slavery, including indentured servitude, under the 13th amendment after the civil war. In reality, most slavery moved to sharecropping and expanding the criminal justice system so that prisons became the new source of cheap black labor. There’s a prison in Mississippi which was converted to a prison after being a plantation became unfashionable and business there has been unchanged since the antebellum.
mcguire 8y ago
"America ended all forms of slavery, including indentured servitude, under the 13th amendment after the civil war." See also "sharecropping" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharecropping https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharecropping) and tenant farming. "The fact the United States moved so quickly after the ratification of the Constitution to ban slave importation in 1808 shows they had a strong desire to get the issue solved." I seem to recall that the bill (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_Prohibiting_Importation_of_Slaves https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_Prohibiting_Importation_of...) was supported by some in the slave states because it would increase the value of their existing slaves. On the other hand, the Wikipedia article seems to imply that an important aspect of the issue was that Britain was the largest slave trader of the time. The idea that "they had a strong desire to get the issue solved" seems clearly false; they kicked that can down the road as long as they could.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> America ended all forms of slavery, including indentured servitude, under the 13th amendment after the civil war. No, it didn't; the 13th Amendment explicitly excluded penal slavery from it's general abolition of slavery, and overt penal slavery continued long after the 13th Amendment, having been radically expanded in its immediate aftermath (and, arguably, penal slavery continues in the U.S. today.) > Our Founders knew the fight against slavery was coming They did, which is why several provisions of the Constitution were put into place to protect the institution and stack the deck for the coming fight.

krapp 8y ago

>America ended all forms of slavery, including indentured servitude, under the 13th amendmemt after the civil war. Not entirely... the 13th amendment makes an exception for "punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted." Meaning slavery as a private institution is outlawed in the US, but the government is allowed to keep as many slaves as it wants, provided it convicts them of a crime first.

spaginal 8y ago
That’s a much larger argument I agree. You could also argue the high level of citizen taxation combined with record deficit spending in our country could be further evidence that the goal posts simply shifted.
- krapp 8y ago
  I won't go so far as to imply that the American justice system is intended to further the institution of slavery with a racially biased system of laws and law enforcement that results in disproportionate black incarceration. But... it is telling that the US just couldn't bring itself to let go of slavery entirely.

jernfrost 8y ago

With all due respect that is hogwash. The war of independence was not quite the glorious thing Americans like to paint it as. 1) The southern states only joined after they learned that the British were freeing slaves. Now the British may not have had ulterior motives, but then don't pretend all Americans did either. 2) The Royal Proclamation of 1763, which forbid european american settlers from expanding into native American territory, was a major contribution to resentment towards British rule. Not exactly a very honorable thing. 3) As for slavery. The Convict lease system existed until past the 1900s or so. This was an enormous system. Over 70% of the income of the state of Albama was from convict lease system. This was just black slavery under a new name. Not only that but it was significantly more brutal than the old slavery. 4) My wife's side of the family is from Hawaii so I've been there many times. I know all to well about the extent of involuntary servitude placed upon immigrants there. People were beaten lynched, racist laws preventing e.g. Chinese from doing anything but farm work. The whole island was illegally invaded by the US. Hawaii was recognized as a sovereign nation by all of Europe at the time. Ok, I am not trying to say the US was the worst ever, one always ends up getting those accusations. I merely asking to stop this incessant American tendency to glorify themselves as so much better than everybody else. Painting the English as some sort of evil tyrants might make sense in India. But in America people tended to enjoy a lot more freedom and lower taxes than anywhere else. Britain had never promised representation to colonial subjects. The US followed the exact same practice in their own colonies. Did not see the Philippines get any representation in the US. Puerto Rico still doesn't.

tptacek 8y ago
I think I agree with the broad thrust of your argument but I am having trouble sourcing the "70% of Alabama's income" stat, and the stats I have found are more like 10%.

travmatt 8y ago

>America ended all forms of slavery, including indentured servitude, under the 13th amendment after the civil war. In reality, most slavery moved to sharecropping and expanding the criminal justice system so that prisons became the new source of cheap black labor. There’s a prison in Mississippi which was converted to a prison after being a plantation became unfashionable and business there has been unchanged since the antebellum.

mcguire 8y ago

"America ended all forms of slavery, including indentured servitude, under the 13th amendment after the civil war." See also "sharecropping" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharecropping https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharecropping) and tenant farming. "The fact the United States moved so quickly after the ratification of the Constitution to ban slave importation in 1808 shows they had a strong desire to get the issue solved." I seem to recall that the bill (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_Prohibiting_Importation_of_Slaves https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_Prohibiting_Importation_of...) was supported by some in the slave states because it would increase the value of their existing slaves. On the other hand, the Wikipedia article seems to imply that an important aspect of the issue was that Britain was the largest slave trader of the time. The idea that "they had a strong desire to get the issue solved" seems clearly false; they kicked that can down the road as long as they could.

dragonwriter 8y ago

> America ended all forms of slavery, including indentured servitude, under the 13th amendment after the civil war. No, it didn't; the 13th Amendment explicitly excluded penal slavery from it's general abolition of slavery, and overt penal slavery continued long after the 13th Amendment, having been radically expanded in its immediate aftermath (and, arguably, penal slavery continues in the U.S. today.) > Our Founders knew the fight against slavery was coming They did, which is why several provisions of the Constitution were put into place to protect the institution and stack the deck for the coming fight.