4 ms·

I feel compelled to note that this page is from 2003-05-13, so I have no clue how much of its gripes are still valid in 'modern' C++ :)

trimbo 8y ago
And smart pointers had been a thing for a while at that point (though not part of the library) https://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_61_0/libs/smart_ptr/smart_ptr.htm#History https://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_61_0/libs/smart_ptr/smart_p...
colanderman 8y ago
Ya this is a whiny garbage post that looks like something I would have written when I was 18 had I been forced to use C++ for a school project (and probably could have been, given its year of publication). I'm not sure it adds anything to human discourse. It certainly isn't applicable to modern C++, or even the modern zeitgeist of pre-modern C++.
- xfer 8y ago
  You can still do all those things in modern C++ in addition to all the stuff that get added every 4 years. The only thing that has improved dramatically is the tooling: compilers, static/dynamic analyzers. > And, as I said before, every C++ programmer feels bound by some mystic promise to use every damn element of the language on every project.
jgalentine007 8y ago
I wonder how things have progressed from a security/stability standpoint - my OS definitely crashes a lot less, I'm guessing because there is less C in it now...
- pjc50 8y ago
  Which OS? Linux and Darwin are still entirely C in the kernel, I believe. Windows is C++.
  - makapuf 8y ago
    It seems that windows kernel is C also : https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/4oruo1/windows_10_coded_in_c_or_assembler/ https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/4oruo1/windows_10_code...
    - jgalentine007 8y ago
      There was a post in that thread that I think confirms my suspicions - that most 'new' code outside the kernel is being written in C++/98 or 14.
    - jcelerier 8y ago
      the kernel is compiled in C++ mode and has a few classes AFAIK. Has been for a very long time - Win3.1 kernel already had some C++ in it. The macos kernel driver interface, IOKit, is C++ too.
  - jgalentine007 8y ago
    I use windows 10. Kernel is still Win32 C calls but I bet a lot of the services on top aren't.
    - ygra 8y ago
      Just because it's a C API doesn't mean it's not C++ underneath. Heck, Microsoft's C runtime is written in C++ nowadays.
_xzxj 8y ago
The author didn't really complain about too much specifically, just generally complaining about the language. I guess it's hard to say whether or not the situation is better in the latest versions of C++ (though as someone who uses C++ an awful lot I would assert that it has gotten much much better). That said, I think the complaint maybe comes down to coding style and architecture of the thing they're coding. They seem to make a joke we'd maybe more closely associate with Java than C++ these days. Also Microsoft's C++ style is awful. So if that's the only experience you have with C++ I would be hard-pressed to blame you for hating it.

trimbo 8y ago

And smart pointers had been a thing for a while at that point (though not part of the library) https://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_61_0/libs/smart_ptr/smart_ptr.htm#History https://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_61_0/libs/smart_ptr/smart_p...

colanderman 8y ago

Ya this is a whiny garbage post that looks like something I would have written when I was 18 had I been forced to use C++ for a school project (and probably could have been, given its year of publication). I'm not sure it adds anything to human discourse. It certainly isn't applicable to modern C++, or even the modern zeitgeist of pre-modern C++.

xfer 8y ago
You can still do all those things in modern C++ in addition to all the stuff that get added every 4 years. The only thing that has improved dramatically is the tooling: compilers, static/dynamic analyzers. > And, as I said before, every C++ programmer feels bound by some mystic promise to use every damn element of the language on every project.

jgalentine007 8y ago

I wonder how things have progressed from a security/stability standpoint - my OS definitely crashes a lot less, I'm guessing because there is less C in it now...

pjc50 8y ago
Which OS? Linux and Darwin are still entirely C in the kernel, I believe. Windows is C++.
- makapuf 8y ago
  It seems that windows kernel is C also : https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/4oruo1/windows_10_coded_in_c_or_assembler/ https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/4oruo1/windows_10_code...
  - jgalentine007 8y ago
    There was a post in that thread that I think confirms my suspicions - that most 'new' code outside the kernel is being written in C++/98 or 14.
  - jcelerier 8y ago
    the kernel is compiled in C++ mode and has a few classes AFAIK. Has been for a very long time - Win3.1 kernel already had some C++ in it. The macos kernel driver interface, IOKit, is C++ too.
- jgalentine007 8y ago
  I use windows 10. Kernel is still Win32 C calls but I bet a lot of the services on top aren't.
  - ygra 8y ago
    Just because it's a C API doesn't mean it's not C++ underneath. Heck, Microsoft's C runtime is written in C++ nowadays.

_xzxj 8y ago

The author didn't really complain about too much specifically, just generally complaining about the language. I guess it's hard to say whether or not the situation is better in the latest versions of C++ (though as someone who uses C++ an awful lot I would assert that it has gotten much much better). That said, I think the complaint maybe comes down to coding style and architecture of the thing they're coding. They seem to make a joke we'd maybe more closely associate with Java than C++ these days. Also Microsoft's C++ style is awful. So if that's the only experience you have with C++ I would be hard-pressed to blame you for hating it.