4 ms·

> nobody here will come to the conclusion they better leave to the EU because they'd be better there If not the EU, there is this fairly European country that

> nobody here will come to the conclusion they better leave to the EU because they'd be better there If not the EU, there is this fairly European country that shares timezones with the US and has a reasonable tech scene going on, and you can actually drive back and forth between the US and this country across the longest undefended border in the world. It used to be one of the US's best friends and strongest allies. Before Russia swooped in like a bad new BF/GF and convinced the US that all of its friends are really its enemies. There is already a fair bit of job mobility between this country and the US, and you can get these weird "socialist" things like healthcare and education that won't bankrupt you. You're welcome here.

yodon 8y ago
As a general note, it’s better to not use code formatting for quotes because it makes the quotes unreadable on mobile
- braythwayt 8y ago
  I am deeply disappointed to hear that there is a feature baked into HN that is unreadable on mobile. But now that I know... I'll pay attention.
mmt 8y ago
> You're welcome here. I don't think that's strictly true. The last time I drove across the border, I got pulled in for extra scrutiny (random, I assume). I happened to be unemployed at the time and was asked a bunch of questions that seemed very strange, since they included things like how much credit limit I had available on my credit cards. The CBSA agent was very nice and eventually explained that it was to make sure that I really was a tourist and wasn't circumventing the procedure for immigration for employment. My understanding (perhaps incorrect?) is that this procedure is fairly stringent, even for US citizens. Getting a visa for that "reasonable tech scene" requires a degree, last I checked. That makes "education that won't bankrupt you" a bit of a catch-22, until the following generation. More importantly, though, it's been a fairly recent topic of discussion here on HN that tech salaries in the tech hubs of Vancouver and Toronto are very low, especially considering the high cost of living (mostly land/rent) in those locales, even factoring in "socialist" benefits. It's been causing something of a "brain drain" to the US. Perhaps less highly-paid workers in lower-cost areas would fare better, but are they being sought from South of the border? Citation needed :)
- braythwayt 8y ago
  We have offices in both SF and Toronto, and so far people report that even with an increased salary, the standard of living is higher working in the Toronto office. Generally, the ones who transfer to SF are young and are looking to sacrifice standard of living in exchange for "being part of the scene," which is perfectly rational. The standard of living in Toronto is reportedly quite higher for people with kids, but that certainly doesn't apply to everyone. Come work with us and you can conduct your own experiment: Work a year here, a year there, for as long as you need to gather data.
  - mmt 8y ago
    > We have offices in both SF and Toronto I have also read that US companies (especially the big-name ones likes FAMG) who open Canadian offices pay more than purely local ones, so I wonder if merely having offices in both places helps increase the otherwise lackluster compensation. > looking to sacrifice standard of living in exchange for "being part of the scene," which is perfectly rational. I'd say it's only rational if that scene inclusion imparts a real benefit, rather than a perceived one. It's at least arguable that it does, other than providing greater opportunities for different, more highly-paid jobs. > The standard of living in Toronto is reportedly quite higher for people with kids, but that certainly doesn't apply to everyone. Is that across the industry or just for your company? Is there a difference between homeowners (who would have a high degree of immunity from rapidly rising home prices) and renters? > Come work with us and you can conduct your own experiment: Work a year here, a year there, for as long as you need to gather data. If only it were that easy (even if you'd hire me). I can't imagine that a year in each place, especially with only one employer, would be nearly enough data, and that's assuming two years at that particular employer would be suitable/acceptable enough not to be the biggest factor in quality-of-life. The other big confounding factor is that you can't really compare SF-to-Toronto, if only because of weather/climate (though I'm sure there are other aspects, not the least of which is whatever lifestyle details someone has become accustomed to already). You'd probably need to do Vancouver-to-SF and Toronto-to-NYC (or maybe Boston). It's probably a reasonable option (if it's actually on offer) for a non-homeowner, without children, just starting a career, but, otherwise, it's not a realistic ask. I'm still not convinced there's any effort being made by Canadian companies or government to recruit employees from the US.

yodon 8y ago

As a general note, it’s better to not use code formatting for quotes because it makes the quotes unreadable on mobile

braythwayt 8y ago
I am deeply disappointed to hear that there is a feature baked into HN that is unreadable on mobile. But now that I know... I'll pay attention.

mmt 8y ago

> You're welcome here. I don't think that's strictly true. The last time I drove across the border, I got pulled in for extra scrutiny (random, I assume). I happened to be unemployed at the time and was asked a bunch of questions that seemed very strange, since they included things like how much credit limit I had available on my credit cards. The CBSA agent was very nice and eventually explained that it was to make sure that I really was a tourist and wasn't circumventing the procedure for immigration for employment. My understanding (perhaps incorrect?) is that this procedure is fairly stringent, even for US citizens. Getting a visa for that "reasonable tech scene" requires a degree, last I checked. That makes "education that won't bankrupt you" a bit of a catch-22, until the following generation. More importantly, though, it's been a fairly recent topic of discussion here on HN that tech salaries in the tech hubs of Vancouver and Toronto are very low, especially considering the high cost of living (mostly land/rent) in those locales, even factoring in "socialist" benefits. It's been causing something of a "brain drain" to the US. Perhaps less highly-paid workers in lower-cost areas would fare better, but are they being sought from South of the border? Citation needed :)

braythwayt 8y ago
We have offices in both SF and Toronto, and so far people report that even with an increased salary, the standard of living is higher working in the Toronto office. Generally, the ones who transfer to SF are young and are looking to sacrifice standard of living in exchange for "being part of the scene," which is perfectly rational. The standard of living in Toronto is reportedly quite higher for people with kids, but that certainly doesn't apply to everyone. Come work with us and you can conduct your own experiment: Work a year here, a year there, for as long as you need to gather data.
- mmt 8y ago
  > We have offices in both SF and Toronto I have also read that US companies (especially the big-name ones likes FAMG) who open Canadian offices pay more than purely local ones, so I wonder if merely having offices in both places helps increase the otherwise lackluster compensation. > looking to sacrifice standard of living in exchange for "being part of the scene," which is perfectly rational. I'd say it's only rational if that scene inclusion imparts a real benefit, rather than a perceived one. It's at least arguable that it does, other than providing greater opportunities for different, more highly-paid jobs. > The standard of living in Toronto is reportedly quite higher for people with kids, but that certainly doesn't apply to everyone. Is that across the industry or just for your company? Is there a difference between homeowners (who would have a high degree of immunity from rapidly rising home prices) and renters? > Come work with us and you can conduct your own experiment: Work a year here, a year there, for as long as you need to gather data. If only it were that easy (even if you'd hire me). I can't imagine that a year in each place, especially with only one employer, would be nearly enough data, and that's assuming two years at that particular employer would be suitable/acceptable enough not to be the biggest factor in quality-of-life. The other big confounding factor is that you can't really compare SF-to-Toronto, if only because of weather/climate (though I'm sure there are other aspects, not the least of which is whatever lifestyle details someone has become accustomed to already). You'd probably need to do Vancouver-to-SF and Toronto-to-NYC (or maybe Boston). It's probably a reasonable option (if it's actually on offer) for a non-homeowner, without children, just starting a career, but, otherwise, it's not a realistic ask. I'm still not convinced there's any effort being made by Canadian companies or government to recruit employees from the US.