6 ms·

I'm a bit amused by the advice to move to SF because that's what all the other nonconformists are doing.

lb1lf 8y ago
"Yes, we are individuals!" Oh, the irony. That being said, I can see how -if you identify as a non-conformist in some way or the other- it makes sense to move to a place with a higher-than-normal ratio of other non-confirmists. After all, even if they are not of the same bent as you, at least they are familiar with the feeling of not fitting in and, hopefully, as a result are more tolerant of other people who deviate from the norm - whatever that norm may be.
pc 8y ago
Advice is to visit, not to move!
- vasilipupkin 8y ago
  do you really think people are that interesting in SF? there are a lot of people trying to make a lot of money by building tech startups in SF, but are those the kind of people that are interesting to meet? Yes, if your aim in life is to build a startup or invest in one, probably no otherwise?
- sudhirj 8y ago
  I was in SF for the last WWDC, mostly to see and visit these people I keep hearing about. But I couldn’t for the life of me figure out where they were or how to talk to them. I went to WWDC, a couple of meetups, the Computer History Museum, walked through Stanford, ate hummus in Palo Alto, took only public transport or shared Lyft rides. But other than a chance meeting with the CEO of Mode Analytics in one can ride that lasted three minutes, basically zero interaction with the type of people mentioned. Granted, I am an introvert and don’t strike up conversations as much as I should, but it seems like saying visit SF is useless. Is there a club or some secret society or library or bar that everyone hangs out in? I’ll come back and visit if I have an address to go to. SF is way too broad.
  - wolco 8y ago
    Hang out in front of google or attend the local 2600 meeting. Best way to meet CEOs is to become one yourself.
    - sudhirj 8y ago
      What’s a 2600 meeting? This? https://www.2600.com/meetings/mtg.html https://www.2600.com/meetings/mtg.html I’ll keep trying to search, but could someone post a note on what’s it’s about?
      - crankylinuxuser 8y ago
        That's correct. 2600 is a hacker quarterly. The 'zine has all sorts of interesting writeups, including hacker politics, 0-day discussions, free software talks, notes from people (including fuckyous as well). And the back is a picture of payphones from around the world. And the name is a throwback to the 2600Hz tone that was used to gain operator rights on pre-digital trunking phone lines.
      - baby 8y ago
        https://www.2600.london/ https://www.2600.london/
    - shafyy 8y ago
      Sorry, but this is real bad advice. Stalking people in front of Google is not going to work.
      - gargarplex 8y ago
        Sorry, but that's just not true. Silicon Valley is filled with stories of successful stalkings. For example, in 2007, I loitered outside Facebook HQ on university ave until I had a chance encounter with someone who also attended my alma mater (!) and was starting his first day of work, so he took me inside with him[1]. I tried to meet with Zuck but they sicced Dave Morin on me. I ended up getting incredible access to the FB engineering team and my app was ultimately acquired, and I partially attribute that to unfair advantage. [1] I think he's now successfully retired.
- JdeBP 8y ago
  ... and because of what is to be found there not because other people are also visiting it.
RussianBot 8y ago
Hoping it was intended to amuse, but one never knows...
Sir_Cmpwn 8y ago
Aye, I was with this post up until there. SF is not a holy place, despite the general opinion of much of this forum. I might replace that advice with "be in the city", where "the city" is anywhere that isn't suburbs/rural.
cvaidya1986 8y ago
Definitely visit SF for unexpected lessons.
nickthemagicman 8y ago
Literally stepped over human feces getting off the bus yesterday. There are alot of non conformists here.
- mhb 8y ago
  The ones with poop on their shoes?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- aphextron 8y ago
  >Literally stepped over human feces getting off the bus yesterday. There are alot of non conformists here. The fact that you didn't step in it makes that a good day in SF
sincerely 8y ago
I suspect that even though SF at one point may have been a gathering point for people who didnt want to do things the normal way it has been filled with people who want to make money off the previous group, which makes it less interesting for future trailblazers. i wonder where they will go in the future
- bengarrr 8y ago
  Orange County (if that zoning bill ever gets passed), Austin, Salt Lake City? Probably Portland.
  - aphextron 8y ago
    >Orange County (if that zoning bill ever gets passed) lol >Austin Texas. >Salt Lake City Mormons. >Probably Portland. Bingo.
    - sincerely 8y ago
      If "Texas" is a downside for Austin, then surely Portland has the same problem? Isn't the rest of the state strongly conservative? Honestly I doubt it will be a city on the tier of Austin/Portland/Seattle, when San Francisco was still the obvious place to go for people who wanted to do weird things it was much cheaper relatively. The same goes for NYC back when it was a musical/artistic hotspot - living space was much much more affordable than any of these cities.
      - aphextron 8y ago
        >If "Texas" is a downside for Austin, then surely Portland has the same problem? Isn't the rest of the state strongly conservative? It definitely does, but to a lesser extent. Oregon is a reliably blue state because the population is extremely sparse outside of Portland, whereas Austin is just a bubble amid a sea of red. Oregon is also a lot less of the "southern redneck confederate" type, and more of the "libertarian don't tread on me" conservative, which is far more tolerable.
olfactory 8y ago
His point was that openness is highly valued. The way I'd put it is that in SF, it is completely OK to be a nonconformist and to do things your own way. It's actually hard to be fully aware of the high levels of conformity one finds elsewhere until you have spent 6+ months in SF. That's not to say that there aren't widespread prejudices held in SF.. the biggest one I have encountered is the belief that people living in "flyover" states are idiots and are less enlightened than those living in SF. Saying SF is open to nonconformity is not another way of saying SF is "enlightened". It's just an aspect of enlightenment that SF culture does particularly well compared to other parts of the world. This isn't even necessarily all kinds of nonconformity... it's just some that are rare elsewhere. If you pick a person at random from anywhere in the US you'll find roughly equivalent levels of enlightenment and judgmental views. What's unique about SF is that being different is way more acceptable than it is elsewhere. When you live in SF for a while and then go to other major cities and see how people dress it looks like they are all wearing a conformist costume, trying to look acceptable. But acceptable to whom? It's this instinct toward conformity that is so repellent about many areas of the country. The example I used about fashion is just an example, the same exists when it comes to life choices, values, etc.
- traek 8y ago
  > It's actually hard to be fully aware of the high levels of conformity one finds elsewhere until you have spent 6+ months in SF. I haven't found this to be the case at all, at least compared to LA/NY/Seattle.

"Yes, we are individuals!" Oh, the irony. That being said, I can see how -if you identify as a non-conformist in some way or the other- it makes sense to move to a place with a higher-than-normal ratio of other non-confirmists. After all, even if they are not of the same bent as you, at least they are familiar with the feeling of not fitting in and, hopefully, as a result are more tolerant of other people who deviate from the norm - whatever that norm may be.

pc 8y ago

Advice is to visit, not to move!

vasilipupkin 8y ago
do you really think people are that interesting in SF? there are a lot of people trying to make a lot of money by building tech startups in SF, but are those the kind of people that are interesting to meet? Yes, if your aim in life is to build a startup or invest in one, probably no otherwise?
sudhirj 8y ago
I was in SF for the last WWDC, mostly to see and visit these people I keep hearing about. But I couldn’t for the life of me figure out where they were or how to talk to them. I went to WWDC, a couple of meetups, the Computer History Museum, walked through Stanford, ate hummus in Palo Alto, took only public transport or shared Lyft rides. But other than a chance meeting with the CEO of Mode Analytics in one can ride that lasted three minutes, basically zero interaction with the type of people mentioned. Granted, I am an introvert and don’t strike up conversations as much as I should, but it seems like saying visit SF is useless. Is there a club or some secret society or library or bar that everyone hangs out in? I’ll come back and visit if I have an address to go to. SF is way too broad.
- wolco 8y ago
  Hang out in front of google or attend the local 2600 meeting. Best way to meet CEOs is to become one yourself.
  - sudhirj 8y ago
    What’s a 2600 meeting? This? https://www.2600.com/meetings/mtg.html https://www.2600.com/meetings/mtg.html I’ll keep trying to search, but could someone post a note on what’s it’s about?
    - crankylinuxuser 8y ago
      That's correct. 2600 is a hacker quarterly. The 'zine has all sorts of interesting writeups, including hacker politics, 0-day discussions, free software talks, notes from people (including fuckyous as well). And the back is a picture of payphones from around the world. And the name is a throwback to the 2600Hz tone that was used to gain operator rights on pre-digital trunking phone lines.
    - baby 8y ago
      https://www.2600.london/ https://www.2600.london/
  - shafyy 8y ago
    Sorry, but this is real bad advice. Stalking people in front of Google is not going to work.
    - gargarplex 8y ago
      Sorry, but that's just not true. Silicon Valley is filled with stories of successful stalkings. For example, in 2007, I loitered outside Facebook HQ on university ave until I had a chance encounter with someone who also attended my alma mater (!) and was starting his first day of work, so he took me inside with him[1]. I tried to meet with Zuck but they sicced Dave Morin on me. I ended up getting incredible access to the FB engineering team and my app was ultimately acquired, and I partially attribute that to unfair advantage. [1] I think he's now successfully retired.
JdeBP 8y ago
... and because of what is to be found there not because other people are also visiting it.

RussianBot 8y ago

Hoping it was intended to amuse, but one never knows...

Sir_Cmpwn 8y ago

Aye, I was with this post up until there. SF is not a holy place, despite the general opinion of much of this forum. I might replace that advice with "be in the city", where "the city" is anywhere that isn't suburbs/rural.

cvaidya1986 8y ago

Definitely visit SF for unexpected lessons.

nickthemagicman 8y ago

Literally stepped over human feces getting off the bus yesterday. There are alot of non conformists here.

mhb 8y ago
The ones with poop on their shoes?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
aphextron 8y ago
>Literally stepped over human feces getting off the bus yesterday. There are alot of non conformists here. The fact that you didn't step in it makes that a good day in SF

sincerely 8y ago

I suspect that even though SF at one point may have been a gathering point for people who didnt want to do things the normal way it has been filled with people who want to make money off the previous group, which makes it less interesting for future trailblazers. i wonder where they will go in the future

bengarrr 8y ago
Orange County (if that zoning bill ever gets passed), Austin, Salt Lake City? Probably Portland.
- aphextron 8y ago
  >Orange County (if that zoning bill ever gets passed) lol >Austin Texas. >Salt Lake City Mormons. >Probably Portland. Bingo.
  - sincerely 8y ago
    If "Texas" is a downside for Austin, then surely Portland has the same problem? Isn't the rest of the state strongly conservative? Honestly I doubt it will be a city on the tier of Austin/Portland/Seattle, when San Francisco was still the obvious place to go for people who wanted to do weird things it was much cheaper relatively. The same goes for NYC back when it was a musical/artistic hotspot - living space was much much more affordable than any of these cities.
    - aphextron 8y ago
      >If "Texas" is a downside for Austin, then surely Portland has the same problem? Isn't the rest of the state strongly conservative? It definitely does, but to a lesser extent. Oregon is a reliably blue state because the population is extremely sparse outside of Portland, whereas Austin is just a bubble amid a sea of red. Oregon is also a lot less of the "southern redneck confederate" type, and more of the "libertarian don't tread on me" conservative, which is far more tolerable.

olfactory 8y ago

His point was that openness is highly valued. The way I'd put it is that in SF, it is completely OK to be a nonconformist and to do things your own way. It's actually hard to be fully aware of the high levels of conformity one finds elsewhere until you have spent 6+ months in SF. That's not to say that there aren't widespread prejudices held in SF.. the biggest one I have encountered is the belief that people living in "flyover" states are idiots and are less enlightened than those living in SF. Saying SF is open to nonconformity is not another way of saying SF is "enlightened". It's just an aspect of enlightenment that SF culture does particularly well compared to other parts of the world. This isn't even necessarily all kinds of nonconformity... it's just some that are rare elsewhere. If you pick a person at random from anywhere in the US you'll find roughly equivalent levels of enlightenment and judgmental views. What's unique about SF is that being different is way more acceptable than it is elsewhere. When you live in SF for a while and then go to other major cities and see how people dress it looks like they are all wearing a conformist costume, trying to look acceptable. But acceptable to whom? It's this instinct toward conformity that is so repellent about many areas of the country. The example I used about fashion is just an example, the same exists when it comes to life choices, values, etc.

traek 8y ago
> It's actually hard to be fully aware of the high levels of conformity one finds elsewhere until you have spent 6+ months in SF. I haven't found this to be the case at all, at least compared to LA/NY/Seattle.