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Interestingly, it seems Blizzard agrees with him; WoW has moved sharply away from the system he describes as nonsensical. (The time penalty has been sharply de

by Lazare 8y ago

Interestingly, it seems Blizzard agrees with him; WoW has moved sharply away from the system he describes as nonsensical. (The time penalty has been sharply decreased in all cases, and essentially eliminated in difficult group content.)

noxToken 8y ago
To be fair, the author mentions that they're discussing death for PvE content: > And more specifically, let's talk about losing in a PvE game, either solo or cooperative. And through that lens, the death system for WoW is pretty lame. But I'd beg to differ for PvP or RPPv(E|P). The run-back system allows people to camp your corpse. This would cause you to request help from your guild or hop on an alt and get help in trade chat. Now you have an overworld faction battle going on. For RP, it becomes an RP element.
- Lazare 8y ago
  Yes, quite right. The runback makes sense in PVP; it largely doesn't in PVE, where it's mostly been eliminated.
noirbot 8y ago
Yea, I maybe die once a month, at most, in general PvE content. For the most part now, you're dying because of dungeon/raid wipes, where you either have a short runback, or you have someone who can resurrect you on the spot. These days, the length of that runback, at least for M+ content is actually important, and there's interesting interactions and strategy around using/abusing it in higher-level content.
- Lazare 8y ago
  Yep. I've been playing WoW long enough that I can recall wiping in a dungeon or raid, respawning as a ghost in a graveyard on the other side of the zone, and needing to run back across difficult terrain on foot. In a couple of notable cases, you'd even need to navigate a maze of some sort just so you could find the portal so you could zone in, rez, and start heading back. The game also used trash respawn as a mechanism for punishing you for taking too long, and I literally had raids disband when we wiped and discovered trash had respawned and we'd need to spend an hour just getting back to where we were. Basically, you screw up, and you could lose anywhere from maybe 5m to an hour. Now at worst you'll respawn at the most recent checkpoint, usually a 10s to 30s runback, and even that is usually avoidable via failure detection pylons and such. It's a different world. > there's interesting interactions and strategy around using/abusing it in higher-level content Yeah, was fascinating watching the MDI and seeing some teams purposefully suicide run and rez up on the fair side to skip hard packs.

by Lazare 8y ago

noxToken 8y ago

To be fair, the author mentions that they're discussing death for PvE content: > And more specifically, let's talk about losing in a PvE game, either solo or cooperative. And through that lens, the death system for WoW is pretty lame. But I'd beg to differ for PvP or RPPv(E|P). The run-back system allows people to camp your corpse. This would cause you to request help from your guild or hop on an alt and get help in trade chat. Now you have an overworld faction battle going on. For RP, it becomes an RP element.

Lazare 8y ago
Yes, quite right. The runback makes sense in PVP; it largely doesn't in PVE, where it's mostly been eliminated.

noirbot 8y ago

Yea, I maybe die once a month, at most, in general PvE content. For the most part now, you're dying because of dungeon/raid wipes, where you either have a short runback, or you have someone who can resurrect you on the spot. These days, the length of that runback, at least for M+ content is actually important, and there's interesting interactions and strategy around using/abusing it in higher-level content.

Lazare 8y ago
Yep. I've been playing WoW long enough that I can recall wiping in a dungeon or raid, respawning as a ghost in a graveyard on the other side of the zone, and needing to run back across difficult terrain on foot. In a couple of notable cases, you'd even need to navigate a maze of some sort just so you could find the portal so you could zone in, rez, and start heading back. The game also used trash respawn as a mechanism for punishing you for taking too long, and I literally had raids disband when we wiped and discovered trash had respawned and we'd need to spend an hour just getting back to where we were. Basically, you screw up, and you could lose anywhere from maybe 5m to an hour. Now at worst you'll respawn at the most recent checkpoint, usually a 10s to 30s runback, and even that is usually avoidable via failure detection pylons and such. It's a different world. > there's interesting interactions and strategy around using/abusing it in higher-level content Yeah, was fascinating watching the MDI and seeing some teams purposefully suicide run and rez up on the fair side to skip hard packs.