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Spourious claims about the chemical makeup of vapor? Check. Misinformed statements about what science found about the dangers of vaping vs cigarettes? Check.

Spourious claims about the chemical makeup of vapor? Check. Misinformed statements about what science found about the dangers of vaping vs cigarettes? Check. Citations of studies with no peer review, that likely don't say what the article claims? Check. Wrong information about the mechanics of vaping? Check. Boogyman chemistry? Check. No indicative knowledge about how people actually use these devices? Check. What about the children-isms? Double check. Look, I get it. As someone who vapes, I truly do my best to treat it like smoking, which is saying I do my darndest to respect those around me. I don't know what to think of Juul. I was told it has 50 mil nic and my jaw hit the floor. Those that vape knows that's a crazy number, and obviously these are incredibly low powered devices. People do move from Juul to more advanced setups, and yes, they step all the way down to 12 or 6 mil (nicotine) off the bat and likely go down to 3 mil after a few months.

paulwithap 8y ago
One thing to keep in mind is that you’re inhaling significantly less vapor per hit with a Juul, than a “mod”.
handsomechad 8y ago
Why do you go down mil(lileter?) nicotine as you progress? pardon my ignorance i have only vaped a few times. Why did your jaw hit the floor for JUUL?
- pandaman 8y ago
  Most vaping devices (mods) produce much denser vapor and doing 50 mg/ml nicotine with them would not be pleasant even for an experienced smoker. People who use vaping to quit smoking gradually decrease nicotine concentration to wean themselves off nicotine.
  - LyndsySimon 8y ago
    It wouldn’t even be safe, much less pleasant. In my experience, 50mg/ml in a low power device like a July is about equal to 9mg/ml in a sub-ohm device.
- dizzystar 8y ago
  Anything above 24 mL is considered dangerous if you are using refillable tanks. Very few people even bother to that high because it is much too strong. The most I could handle was 12mL, but that was on very low-powered devices. You go down because you go for more power, partly. When I started, you could only get up to maybe 10w. These days, people are going up to 100, but I'm pretty sure they are not using any nicotine for that. You also just don't need as much over time. Nicotine also over-ride the flavor.
nullymcnull 8y ago
That's a good hot take, and I don't really disagree about (some of) the tendencies of this article, but this is still a pretty shady / unethical company by most measures. > I was told it has 50 mil nic and my jaw hit the floor. Those that vape knows that's a crazy number Since the earliest days of vaping, it's been easy to get liquids at varying nicotine levels, downright common to have them without nicotine at all, and it's been understood practically as a first principle that one can gradually taper down the nicotine levels as an effective means of smoking / overall nic cessation. Along comes Juul, with patents for more effective nic delivery, a $16B valuation and >$1B capital, trying to reach people who aren't necessarily tuned into this niche at all, coming to market with exactly one nicotine option: ultra freaking high, apparently over double what for a long time was the standard 'highest' option available from most e-liquid vendors (18mg/mL). These guys seriously only plan to start selling "lower-dose pods" at some later point. I'm not so sure that any significant portion of the market they're angling for (virgins to the product space) is likely to progress to "more advanced setups", not if Juul is their point of entry. In any case, Juul's rising will probably lead to higher median nic levels in the market at large, as competitors whose product would otherwise seem "weak" try to reach Juul's customers. Makes sense, I guess, that the guys in this space getting funded would be those who are the most amoral - cranking nic levels up while aiming to deliver it with more punch, not even pretending to support tapering off nic entirely, keeping them on the tit for now while probably offering unspecified lower levels in the future. On one hand they talk about their noble mission to get people off the hated cigarettes and their outreach to keep everything above-board and 21+, on the other they make sure social media is carpet bombed with cool young guys + gals vapin Juuls. Don't get me wrong, I'm not outraged or clamouring for them to be legislated to their doom or anything. I'm truly impressed by how brazen and full of shit these guys are.
- dizzystar 8y ago
  As I said, I'm conflicted. I've talked to a few shop owners who told me most people move off of them in short order, no different than when people start with Blu or any of the other more "cigalike" brands. In my interpretation, no company can really stay afloat by sticking to beginners, except for a very small portion. Every "beginner" device these days is good enough for a long-time user. Even those companies have things that are for more advanced users, though the highly advanced stuff is a different world entirely. The CA regulations opened the door for companies like Juul to thrive. No one took these sorts of companies seriously enough to suggest them to anyone. Now that CA has all these regulations, vape shops just gave up and started carrying them. It's ironic because so much of the regulations purportedly about safety, yet it's only going to take one Juul to leak to see someone dead of nicotine poison, and the company can apparently advertise as they are due to loopholes.
lvoudour 8y ago
I don't know why you're getting downvoted, I think your comment is spot on > People do move from Juul to more advanced setups, and yes, they step all the way down to 12 or 6 mil (nicotine) off the bat and likely go down to 3 mil after a few months. That's certainly true for me, started vaping few months ago at 12 mil, switched to 6 within two weeks, trying 3 now. 50 mil is insane, there is absolutely no way you'll ever get hooked off nicotine and if it's true that they don't offer lower nic alternatives that's just insidious (and no different to what the tobacco industry has done for decades)

paulwithap 8y ago

One thing to keep in mind is that you’re inhaling significantly less vapor per hit with a Juul, than a “mod”.

handsomechad 8y ago

Why do you go down mil(lileter?) nicotine as you progress? pardon my ignorance i have only vaped a few times. Why did your jaw hit the floor for JUUL?

pandaman 8y ago
Most vaping devices (mods) produce much denser vapor and doing 50 mg/ml nicotine with them would not be pleasant even for an experienced smoker. People who use vaping to quit smoking gradually decrease nicotine concentration to wean themselves off nicotine.
- LyndsySimon 8y ago
  It wouldn’t even be safe, much less pleasant. In my experience, 50mg/ml in a low power device like a July is about equal to 9mg/ml in a sub-ohm device.
dizzystar 8y ago
Anything above 24 mL is considered dangerous if you are using refillable tanks. Very few people even bother to that high because it is much too strong. The most I could handle was 12mL, but that was on very low-powered devices. You go down because you go for more power, partly. When I started, you could only get up to maybe 10w. These days, people are going up to 100, but I'm pretty sure they are not using any nicotine for that. You also just don't need as much over time. Nicotine also over-ride the flavor.

nullymcnull 8y ago

That's a good hot take, and I don't really disagree about (some of) the tendencies of this article, but this is still a pretty shady / unethical company by most measures. > I was told it has 50 mil nic and my jaw hit the floor. Those that vape knows that's a crazy number Since the earliest days of vaping, it's been easy to get liquids at varying nicotine levels, downright common to have them without nicotine at all, and it's been understood practically as a first principle that one can gradually taper down the nicotine levels as an effective means of smoking / overall nic cessation. Along comes Juul, with patents for more effective nic delivery, a $16B valuation and >$1B capital, trying to reach people who aren't necessarily tuned into this niche at all, coming to market with exactly one nicotine option: ultra freaking high, apparently over double what for a long time was the standard 'highest' option available from most e-liquid vendors (18mg/mL). These guys seriously only plan to start selling "lower-dose pods" at some later point. I'm not so sure that any significant portion of the market they're angling for (virgins to the product space) is likely to progress to "more advanced setups", not if Juul is their point of entry. In any case, Juul's rising will probably lead to higher median nic levels in the market at large, as competitors whose product would otherwise seem "weak" try to reach Juul's customers. Makes sense, I guess, that the guys in this space getting funded would be those who are the most amoral - cranking nic levels up while aiming to deliver it with more punch, not even pretending to support tapering off nic entirely, keeping them on the tit for now while probably offering unspecified lower levels in the future. On one hand they talk about their noble mission to get people off the hated cigarettes and their outreach to keep everything above-board and 21+, on the other they make sure social media is carpet bombed with cool young guys + gals vapin Juuls. Don't get me wrong, I'm not outraged or clamouring for them to be legislated to their doom or anything. I'm truly impressed by how brazen and full of shit these guys are.

dizzystar 8y ago
As I said, I'm conflicted. I've talked to a few shop owners who told me most people move off of them in short order, no different than when people start with Blu or any of the other more "cigalike" brands. In my interpretation, no company can really stay afloat by sticking to beginners, except for a very small portion. Every "beginner" device these days is good enough for a long-time user. Even those companies have things that are for more advanced users, though the highly advanced stuff is a different world entirely. The CA regulations opened the door for companies like Juul to thrive. No one took these sorts of companies seriously enough to suggest them to anyone. Now that CA has all these regulations, vape shops just gave up and started carrying them. It's ironic because so much of the regulations purportedly about safety, yet it's only going to take one Juul to leak to see someone dead of nicotine poison, and the company can apparently advertise as they are due to loopholes.

lvoudour 8y ago

I don't know why you're getting downvoted, I think your comment is spot on > People do move from Juul to more advanced setups, and yes, they step all the way down to 12 or 6 mil (nicotine) off the bat and likely go down to 3 mil after a few months. That's certainly true for me, started vaping few months ago at 12 mil, switched to 6 within two weeks, trying 3 now. 50 mil is insane, there is absolutely no way you'll ever get hooked off nicotine and if it's true that they don't offer lower nic alternatives that's just insidious (and no different to what the tobacco industry has done for decades)