6 ms·

Ask HN: Is there any credible evidence for ET intelligent life?

11 points by dosy 8y ago

splodge 8y ago
https://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA16204.jpg https://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA16204.jpg
- blocked_again 8y ago
  What is the story with this image?
  - chralie66 8y ago
    "UFO buffs zeroed in on a portion of a panoramic photo taken by NASA's Curiosity rover in September 2012. These viewers spotted an object that looked like a rat lying between two rocks. While it's a creative idea, the "Mars rat" is unlikely, scientists have said. The Red Planet has extremely cold temperatures, is baked in radiation and lacks a thick, protective atmosphere like Earth's, making it an extremely hostile environment for life." [1] Doesn't seem legitimate. 1 - https://www.cbsnews.com/media/mars-myths-6-red-planet-hoaxes-exposed/6/ https://www.cbsnews.com/media/mars-myths-6-red-planet-hoaxes...
    - krapp 8y ago
      I can imagine simple, extremophile life of some kind existing on Mars, but complex vertebrates running around on its surface is just silly.
- wuunderbar 8y ago
  And what exactly am I looking at here?
- willmeyers 8y ago
  Just for clarification (since OP didn't give any insight to the picture he/she posted), it's a picture of the "Mars Rat"[1]. It's just a funny looking rock. [1] https://www.space.com/21455-mars-rat-curiosity-rover-drive.html https://www.space.com/21455-mars-rat-curiosity-rover-drive.h...
  - blocked_again 8y ago
    Yup. Extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidences.
- dosy 8y ago
  I think that the parameter space of "all possible rock shapes" X all possible camera angles / perspectives is so large that you are abound to get rocks that look like all sorts of things. Plus humans like to/evolved to find faces/creatures in patterns (see clouds). So that's pretty weak evidence.
hprotagonist 8y ago
i do not believe that we have any such evidence. I’m open to the possibility that extraterrestrial life exists. I suspect that it’s mostly prokaryotic — and i don’t think there’s any credible evidence for advanced alien civilizations or the like, to date.
gmuslera 8y ago
Not that I'm aware of. And maybe we will never have one, by far most of the universe is out of our reach and (detailed enough) sight. We might eventually have evidence of ET intelligent life in some point of the future, but never will have of the lack of it. But the size and age of the universe makes the odds of us being an unique case very improbable.
staunch 8y ago
AFAIK the closest thing we have is the very recently released USS Nimitz incident: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Nimitz_UFO_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Nimitz_UFO_incident And even this example is very very far from being enough evidence to believe extraterrestrial intelligent life has visited Earth.
ndethore 8y ago
It depends on your definition of "intelligent life", but if you're talking about a life form that we, humans could observe and interact with using our few senses then I'm afraid that the answer is "no". Anders Sandberg, Eric Drexler and Toby Ord recently published a paper that demonstrate a substantial probability that we're alone our galaxy and perhaps observable universe: https://arxiv.org/abs/1806.02404 https://arxiv.org/abs/1806.02404 Can you guys hear the cosmic crickets too? lol
- BerislavLopac 8y ago
  And the HN discussion is here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17302924 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17302924 BTW, "Cosmic Crickets" is the name of my next rockabilly revival band. ;-)
- dosy 8y ago
  If we're really alone, does what we do / not do, have any real value? More anecdotal evidence for them could be said to exist than for God and if there are no ETs/God/higher powers, and we're just alone does any of it really matter? Isn't all morality / law just whatever elites/leaders have determined is the best way to control us / let them maintain their power? If there is no karma (bad people prosper, while the meek/good often perish) why not just go full-Machiavellian? Is the only meaning in this world the pursuit of biological urges / or money-status? If we're alone, what's the point? By the same logic that priests having the power to channel / control the believers access to God have wielded tremendous power, the State would probably love if ETs were real, since it could then co-opt ETs into a mechanism for control. Or maybe the ETs can't be co-opted...
taxicabjesus 8y ago
A better question might be, "if there was incontrovertible evidence of the existence of ET intelligent life, how would the conditions of human civilization on planet Earth be different?" Suppose that Planet Earth is actually being visited regularly by ETs with technology vastly more advanced than our own. Our transportation technology runs on the laws of thermodynamics, while theirs would presumably be powered by the more-fundamental laws that govern "dark energy" (superseding thermodynamics, just like Einstein > Newton). I don't have any evidence either way, but I think it's hubris to make a case that ours is the only planet with life anything like our own, and that equivalents to humanity's 1st generation space technologies (radios, rockets, etc) would still be used by more advanced civilizations.
- dosy 8y ago
  Yep, or our 1st-gen comms tech (EMF, observable radio waves, unencrypted). But if earth is 4.5 billion years old, and the universe 3x that and 200 x 10^9 other stars in Milky Way, and 100x10^9 other galaxies in universe, and in our own planet/history many traits (eyes, etc) evolved independently many times over, and there's nothing "special" about Earth chemistry ( these elements are all produced by stars, everywhere ), and nothing special about Earth in the "habitable" zone around a star, --> why would we be the only life here? And what's that Pentagon video of some super fast object? https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/pentagon-program-ufo-harry-reid.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/pentagon-prog... I think if ET was real most people would still care about the same things (because consider that 2000 years ago we are warlike, violent, superstitious, gullible, flawed, selfish, kind, etc, and 2000 years later, after organized religion, industrial revolution, international travel, internet, long lifespans, mobile phones, we are still the same). Maybe 10 - 20% of the population would adopt ETs as some sort of "god" / higher power (but there are ppl who do this anyway, even now). I don't think much would change, but ppl would try holding their governments to more accountability ( why don't we have that tech, why have you kept it secret ), but like most protest movements recently, it will probably be pretty ineffective. I use to think there will be large scale civil unrest, but now I think, people really won't care. But if there is that tech on Earth, then our military has to make it a priority to obtain it (because what if someone else also has it), so there's that consideration, which could justify keeping everything secret (what if everyone had a UFO and could fly anywhere they wanted at 20,000 km/h? probably chaos, an upending of the order ~ but maybe not. We thought individuals having access to all information, and a publishing platform, would make individuals vastly more powerful, but that hasn't really upended the order. If anything, the State has become more powerful because of the internet.) But UFO travel would sure beat 15 hours across the pacific in an uncomfortable aluminium tube.

11 points by dosy 8y ago

splodge 8y ago

https://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA16204.jpg https://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA16204.jpg

blocked_again 8y ago
What is the story with this image?
- chralie66 8y ago
  "UFO buffs zeroed in on a portion of a panoramic photo taken by NASA's Curiosity rover in September 2012. These viewers spotted an object that looked like a rat lying between two rocks. While it's a creative idea, the "Mars rat" is unlikely, scientists have said. The Red Planet has extremely cold temperatures, is baked in radiation and lacks a thick, protective atmosphere like Earth's, making it an extremely hostile environment for life." [1] Doesn't seem legitimate. 1 - https://www.cbsnews.com/media/mars-myths-6-red-planet-hoaxes-exposed/6/ https://www.cbsnews.com/media/mars-myths-6-red-planet-hoaxes...
  - krapp 8y ago
    I can imagine simple, extremophile life of some kind existing on Mars, but complex vertebrates running around on its surface is just silly.
wuunderbar 8y ago
And what exactly am I looking at here?
willmeyers 8y ago
Just for clarification (since OP didn't give any insight to the picture he/she posted), it's a picture of the "Mars Rat"[1]. It's just a funny looking rock. [1] https://www.space.com/21455-mars-rat-curiosity-rover-drive.html https://www.space.com/21455-mars-rat-curiosity-rover-drive.h...
- blocked_again 8y ago
  Yup. Extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidences.
dosy 8y ago
I think that the parameter space of "all possible rock shapes" X all possible camera angles / perspectives is so large that you are abound to get rocks that look like all sorts of things. Plus humans like to/evolved to find faces/creatures in patterns (see clouds). So that's pretty weak evidence.

hprotagonist 8y ago

i do not believe that we have any such evidence. I’m open to the possibility that extraterrestrial life exists. I suspect that it’s mostly prokaryotic — and i don’t think there’s any credible evidence for advanced alien civilizations or the like, to date.

gmuslera 8y ago

Not that I'm aware of. And maybe we will never have one, by far most of the universe is out of our reach and (detailed enough) sight. We might eventually have evidence of ET intelligent life in some point of the future, but never will have of the lack of it. But the size and age of the universe makes the odds of us being an unique case very improbable.

staunch 8y ago

AFAIK the closest thing we have is the very recently released USS Nimitz incident: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Nimitz_UFO_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Nimitz_UFO_incident And even this example is very very far from being enough evidence to believe extraterrestrial intelligent life has visited Earth.

ndethore 8y ago

It depends on your definition of "intelligent life", but if you're talking about a life form that we, humans could observe and interact with using our few senses then I'm afraid that the answer is "no". Anders Sandberg, Eric Drexler and Toby Ord recently published a paper that demonstrate a substantial probability that we're alone our galaxy and perhaps observable universe: https://arxiv.org/abs/1806.02404 https://arxiv.org/abs/1806.02404 Can you guys hear the cosmic crickets too? lol

BerislavLopac 8y ago
And the HN discussion is here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17302924 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17302924 BTW, "Cosmic Crickets" is the name of my next rockabilly revival band. ;-)
dosy 8y ago
If we're really alone, does what we do / not do, have any real value? More anecdotal evidence for them could be said to exist than for God and if there are no ETs/God/higher powers, and we're just alone does any of it really matter? Isn't all morality / law just whatever elites/leaders have determined is the best way to control us / let them maintain their power? If there is no karma (bad people prosper, while the meek/good often perish) why not just go full-Machiavellian? Is the only meaning in this world the pursuit of biological urges / or money-status? If we're alone, what's the point? By the same logic that priests having the power to channel / control the believers access to God have wielded tremendous power, the State would probably love if ETs were real, since it could then co-opt ETs into a mechanism for control. Or maybe the ETs can't be co-opted...

taxicabjesus 8y ago

A better question might be, "if there was incontrovertible evidence of the existence of ET intelligent life, how would the conditions of human civilization on planet Earth be different?" Suppose that Planet Earth is actually being visited regularly by ETs with technology vastly more advanced than our own. Our transportation technology runs on the laws of thermodynamics, while theirs would presumably be powered by the more-fundamental laws that govern "dark energy" (superseding thermodynamics, just like Einstein > Newton). I don't have any evidence either way, but I think it's hubris to make a case that ours is the only planet with life anything like our own, and that equivalents to humanity's 1st generation space technologies (radios, rockets, etc) would still be used by more advanced civilizations.

dosy 8y ago
Yep, or our 1st-gen comms tech (EMF, observable radio waves, unencrypted). But if earth is 4.5 billion years old, and the universe 3x that and 200 x 10^9 other stars in Milky Way, and 100x10^9 other galaxies in universe, and in our own planet/history many traits (eyes, etc) evolved independently many times over, and there's nothing "special" about Earth chemistry ( these elements are all produced by stars, everywhere ), and nothing special about Earth in the "habitable" zone around a star, --> why would we be the only life here? And what's that Pentagon video of some super fast object? https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/pentagon-program-ufo-harry-reid.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/pentagon-prog... I think if ET was real most people would still care about the same things (because consider that 2000 years ago we are warlike, violent, superstitious, gullible, flawed, selfish, kind, etc, and 2000 years later, after organized religion, industrial revolution, international travel, internet, long lifespans, mobile phones, we are still the same). Maybe 10 - 20% of the population would adopt ETs as some sort of "god" / higher power (but there are ppl who do this anyway, even now). I don't think much would change, but ppl would try holding their governments to more accountability ( why don't we have that tech, why have you kept it secret ), but like most protest movements recently, it will probably be pretty ineffective. I use to think there will be large scale civil unrest, but now I think, people really won't care. But if there is that tech on Earth, then our military has to make it a priority to obtain it (because what if someone else also has it), so there's that consideration, which could justify keeping everything secret (what if everyone had a UFO and could fly anywhere they wanted at 20,000 km/h? probably chaos, an upending of the order ~ but maybe not. We thought individuals having access to all information, and a publishing platform, would make individuals vastly more powerful, but that hasn't really upended the order. If anything, the State has become more powerful because of the internet.) But UFO travel would sure beat 15 hours across the pacific in an uncomfortable aluminium tube.